Issola - Steven Brust
Oct. 15th, 2021 01:08 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
silverflight8Another one I really enjoyed. Attempting to talk about involves so many spoilers though so:
*NOOOO that's not okay Steven Brust! How dare!!
*I had such a bad feeling as soon as Lady Teldra stabbed the Jenoine. It was just written in a way that was screaming something really awful was about to happen. Plus it happened after Morrolan was killed so the stakes were definitely going to be higher. What a way to go, but how dare this happen to Lady Teldra! I really liked her, even back when we only knew she was the person greeting Vlad at the door (and discomfiting him by being so nice and even convincing him she was sincere about welcoming him). How! Dare!
*I absolutely loved that Lady Teldra managed to track him down in the woods. OK, she had Sethra's help, but still. I loved that she knew to stop well before she freaked out Vlad enough to make him do something he'd regret. Honestly the whole sequence before they get to Dzur Mountain is so great.
*Loiosh really respects Sethra and let her scratch his ears! Is this because she also served him a dead teckla that one time? :D
*Super interesting about the Paths of the Dead and their purpose. It also makes me wonder why Loraan was returned as undead (though that might also have been Blackwand's doing - it was Morrolan who killed him).
*Vlad sasses Sethra so so much, even more than usual. Maybe all the enforced solitude in the woods has done this to him. After all, Loiosh has him beat in the sarcasm department. But Vlad! Don't roll your eyes at the explanation is the one you demanded yourself! lol
*There's no way in hell Vlad would hear that Morrolan and Aliera were captured and needed help, and not go and help them. Stop fighting yourself and just take Sethra's suggestion to help them!
This is clearly a reference to Vlad's son which he still has no idea about, yes?! Morrolan knows about him, clearly! oh my gOD
*We got so much good backstory!!
*Morrolan's backstory in the East! Oh my god he thought he was an Easterner? He was raised by them because his parents died? He thought he was just a freakishly tall human? hahahahaha oh my god. I assume that Dragaerans mostly grow physically as quickly as Easterners do, although of course Dragaerans consider eg 90 year olds to be young kids and 500 to be young adults, but it's not like Vlad feels Savn to be physically child sized or anything.
*Awwww
Google Translate says this is Hungarian (as is all the Fenarian in these books, as far as I can tell) for Dark Star. Which is wonderful.
*This is pretty sad though, because Morrolan definitely outlived his foster parents :( While he was very young, by Dragaeran standards.
*Lady Teldra and Morrolan met in the East! Morrolan hired her to make up for his flaws, which yes, is pretty far-sighted of him, considering how old he is.
*I am dying at the recounting of Morrolan charging up Dzur Mountain because Sethra didn't pay tribute and Dzur Mountain is within his fief - and Vlad wondering but scared to ask whether in present day, Sethra pays Morrolan anything. I'm not sure which is funnier, honestly.
*I loved that Loiosh called himself cute (yes, yes you are!!) while the rest of them are attempting to digest the idea that the Jenoine barely consider them a threat, like a kitten playing with a string, cute, hardly worth planning around.
*We found out who Drien was!
*I love that when Verra speaks and there are others around, they clearly hear something slightly (or sometimes very) different. It's a great way of illustrating how unlike the Dragaerans and humans she is and the way she can manifest in multiple places, etc.
*Oh my god, Vlad's outburst about Morrolan and Aliera. They do fight a lot and Vlad's been sick of it since about when they rescued Aliera, this has been building up for some time.
*I have questions about Aliera's parentage though. She's the daughter of Verra and Adron? Uhh....how did that even happen?! That's quite the reversal of the usual god and human union configuration.
*I loved the depiction of the outside of the little prison the Jenoine placed them in. It reminds me of the xkcd strip https://xkcd.com/1472/
*We got way more sorcerous/witchcraft explanation! I loved that Aliera filled in the basics and then just said bluntly "Your education was sadly lacking." lmao. For one, he hasn't had 500 years to learn, ok! Also the time of the greatest sorcerous education for him was when he was feeling extremely negatively of Dragaerans. But it was cool to learn more of amorphia - I kind of think of it as antimatter now. It was interesting also to think of the Jenoine thinking so radically different - of how to them physically moving is like spiritwalking, and breaking an illusion to look around is more like moving from places (though Lady Teldra calls this not quite accurate but close). An interesting concept and one that makes the Jeonine satisfyingly alien.
*I love that Lady Teldra learned to speak Jenoine at one point. Also that Morrolan is taken aback that she knows!
*I enjoy the conversation Lady Teldra and Vlad have about courtesy, and I totally broadly agree, though also one of the reasons Vlad survives, which Lady Teldra can't see, is because he's the main character ;)
*Loved this exchange. Sethra is probably exhausted by young people, i.e. the population of the entire world. I absolutely understand why she sits in Dzur Mountain by herself.
*Aww, I love that Morrolan went down to his weapons storeroom, filled up a bag of daggers, and gave Vlad the bag because he knew Vlad had depleted his and would probably be feeling quite at sea without them.
*I love that Aliera knows this! You can read between the lines at how many meals they've all had together (and food matters a lot to Vlad!)
*Some insane amounts of power brought to bear at the battle at the end! Wow. And here's Vlad again (this is the second time in this book alone) where he is hanging back, feeling outclassed and without a specific role, jumping in because he feels bad or he needs to help. Oh, Vlad.
*I really enjoyed how so many threads about the Great Weapons and Morganti weapons came together. Especially the Serioli's remark, when Morrolan and Vlad show up - the Serioli says "why do you only introduce me to 2 out of 5 of your party? Because one of them is half-there?" It's Morrolan, Vlad, Loiosh, and then Blackwand and Spellbreaker, half of the weapon. It makes me wonder who's in Pathfinder and Iceflame and Blackwand.
*Though I'm still a little unsure of this line: "and that’s how Pathfinder had saved Aliera’s life". I assume this refers to the time they were working to assassinate Mellar and they trick him into stabbing Aliera with a Morganti dagger. The sentience of Pathfinder? Can't really tell.
*I love that the Jhereg's threat of assassination via Morganti dagger now is like, nothing for him. Yeah, I don't think Morrolan or Aliera or Sethra are that concerned about Morganti weapons being aimed at them, either. And I absolutely love that he immediately has himself teleported to Valabar's to have a nice meal. RELATABLE
*NOOOO that's not okay Steven Brust! How dare!!
*I had such a bad feeling as soon as Lady Teldra stabbed the Jenoine. It was just written in a way that was screaming something really awful was about to happen. Plus it happened after Morrolan was killed so the stakes were definitely going to be higher. What a way to go, but how dare this happen to Lady Teldra! I really liked her, even back when we only knew she was the person greeting Vlad at the door (and discomfiting him by being so nice and even convincing him she was sincere about welcoming him). How! Dare!
*I absolutely loved that Lady Teldra managed to track him down in the woods. OK, she had Sethra's help, but still. I loved that she knew to stop well before she freaked out Vlad enough to make him do something he'd regret. Honestly the whole sequence before they get to Dzur Mountain is so great.
*Loiosh really respects Sethra and let her scratch his ears! Is this because she also served him a dead teckla that one time? :D
*Super interesting about the Paths of the Dead and their purpose. It also makes me wonder why Loraan was returned as undead (though that might also have been Blackwand's doing - it was Morrolan who killed him).
*Vlad sasses Sethra so so much, even more than usual. Maybe all the enforced solitude in the woods has done this to him. After all, Loiosh has him beat in the sarcasm department. But Vlad! Don't roll your eyes at the explanation is the one you demanded yourself! lol
*There's no way in hell Vlad would hear that Morrolan and Aliera were captured and needed help, and not go and help them. Stop fighting yourself and just take Sethra's suggestion to help them!
“That’s why we were taken,” said Aliera, giving me a look. “In order to coerce Vlad into doing what they want.”
“You’d think,” said Morrolan, “that if that was true, they’d have taken Cawti, or better yet—” He broke off abruptly and scowled.
This is clearly a reference to Vlad's son which he still has no idea about, yes?! Morrolan knows about him, clearly! oh my gOD
*We got so much good backstory!!
*Morrolan's backstory in the East! Oh my god he thought he was an Easterner? He was raised by them because his parents died? He thought he was just a freakishly tall human? hahahahaha oh my god. I assume that Dragaerans mostly grow physically as quickly as Easterners do, although of course Dragaerans consider eg 90 year olds to be young kids and 500 to be young adults, but it's not like Vlad feels Savn to be physically child sized or anything.
*Awwww
She nodded. “His name at the time was Fenarian: Sötétcsilleg. ‘Morrolan’ is just the same thing, rendered into the ancient tongue of the Dragon.”
Google Translate says this is Hungarian (as is all the Fenarian in these books, as far as I can tell) for Dark Star. Which is wonderful.
*This is pretty sad though, because Morrolan definitely outlived his foster parents :( While he was very young, by Dragaeran standards.
*Lady Teldra and Morrolan met in the East! Morrolan hired her to make up for his flaws, which yes, is pretty far-sighted of him, considering how old he is.
*I am dying at the recounting of Morrolan charging up Dzur Mountain because Sethra didn't pay tribute and Dzur Mountain is within his fief - and Vlad wondering but scared to ask whether in present day, Sethra pays Morrolan anything. I'm not sure which is funnier, honestly.
*I loved that Loiosh called himself cute (yes, yes you are!!) while the rest of them are attempting to digest the idea that the Jenoine barely consider them a threat, like a kitten playing with a string, cute, hardly worth planning around.
[Lady Teldra:] “I am still considering the matter and trying to understand, but it seems to me that they spoke to me—insofar as I could perceive tone—in the tone one might use to, well, a greeterbird. They were amused that I could form any sort of coherent thought; they think we’re cute.”
“Cute,” said Aliera e’Kieron.
“Cute,” said Morrolan e’Drien.
“I am cute,” said Loiosh.
*We found out who Drien was!
*I love that when Verra speaks and there are others around, they clearly hear something slightly (or sometimes very) different. It's a great way of illustrating how unlike the Dragaerans and humans she is and the way she can manifest in multiple places, etc.
*Oh my god, Vlad's outburst about Morrolan and Aliera. They do fight a lot and Vlad's been sick of it since about when they rescued Aliera, this has been building up for some time.
*I have questions about Aliera's parentage though. She's the daughter of Verra and Adron? Uhh....how did that even happen?! That's quite the reversal of the usual god and human union configuration.
*I loved the depiction of the outside of the little prison the Jenoine placed them in. It reminds me of the xkcd strip https://xkcd.com/1472/
*We got way more sorcerous/witchcraft explanation! I loved that Aliera filled in the basics and then just said bluntly "Your education was sadly lacking." lmao. For one, he hasn't had 500 years to learn, ok! Also the time of the greatest sorcerous education for him was when he was feeling extremely negatively of Dragaerans. But it was cool to learn more of amorphia - I kind of think of it as antimatter now. It was interesting also to think of the Jenoine thinking so radically different - of how to them physically moving is like spiritwalking, and breaking an illusion to look around is more like moving from places (though Lady Teldra calls this not quite accurate but close). An interesting concept and one that makes the Jeonine satisfyingly alien.
*I love that Lady Teldra learned to speak Jenoine at one point. Also that Morrolan is taken aback that she knows!
*I enjoy the conversation Lady Teldra and Vlad have about courtesy, and I totally broadly agree, though also one of the reasons Vlad survives, which Lady Teldra can't see, is because he's the main character ;)
*Loved this exchange. Sethra is probably exhausted by young people, i.e. the population of the entire world. I absolutely understand why she sits in Dzur Mountain by herself.
“Defense,” said Morrolan like it was something foul. “Why not attack them instead? I’ve always preferred attacking to defending.”
“I know,” said Sethra. “But you are still young, and may yet learn.”
*Aww, I love that Morrolan went down to his weapons storeroom, filled up a bag of daggers, and gave Vlad the bag because he knew Vlad had depleted his and would probably be feeling quite at sea without them.
I moaned softly. Sethra said, “Is the arm beginning to hurt?”
“No,” said Aliera. “That’s his moan of contentment after a good meal.”
“Now, how would you know that?” I asked her.
She gave me an inscrutable smile that she must have learned from Morrolan. I grunted and drank some more, and enjoyed the transitory sense of contentment I was feeling.
*I love that Aliera knows this! You can read between the lines at how many meals they've all had together (and food matters a lot to Vlad!)
*Some insane amounts of power brought to bear at the battle at the end! Wow. And here's Vlad again (this is the second time in this book alone) where he is hanging back, feeling outclassed and without a specific role, jumping in because he feels bad or he needs to help. Oh, Vlad.
*I really enjoyed how so many threads about the Great Weapons and Morganti weapons came together. Especially the Serioli's remark, when Morrolan and Vlad show up - the Serioli says "why do you only introduce me to 2 out of 5 of your party? Because one of them is half-there?" It's Morrolan, Vlad, Loiosh, and then Blackwand and Spellbreaker, half of the weapon. It makes me wonder who's in Pathfinder and Iceflame and Blackwand.
*Though I'm still a little unsure of this line: "and that’s how Pathfinder had saved Aliera’s life". I assume this refers to the time they were working to assassinate Mellar and they trick him into stabbing Aliera with a Morganti dagger. The sentience of Pathfinder? Can't really tell.
*I love that the Jhereg's threat of assassination via Morganti dagger now is like, nothing for him. Yeah, I don't think Morrolan or Aliera or Sethra are that concerned about Morganti weapons being aimed at them, either. And I absolutely love that he immediately has himself teleported to Valabar's to have a nice meal. RELATABLE
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Date: Oct. 15th, 2021 05:50 am (UTC)“I know,” said Sethra. “But you are still young, and may yet learn.”
OMG. You know, we talked a little about how one of my (many) little favorite bits in this book is Morrolan going down defending Vlad and Teldra - voluntarily taking a defensive rather than offensive role in the fight rather than allowing them to be hurt or killed - but I forgot about that bit ... I ... aaaaaahhhh. *falls over in a pile of feelings*
Anyway, yes, this is one of my favorite books in the series - probably tied with Taltos and Jhereg for top fave, I think. It's just so full of truly lovely character notes, backstory, worldbuilding reveals, funny bits, and all the things that make these books good. Rereading this book was delightful and yet also flavored with the tension of knowing where everything is going and somehow wanting things to turn out better this time but knowing they can't.
I loved the depiction of the outside of the little prison the Jenoine placed them in. It reminds me of the xkcd strip https://xkcd.com/1472/
Hahahaha! It is exactly like that. I also really love the descriptions of the Jenoine and the gods from Vlad's world interacting with the world in ways that are nearly incomprehensible to a human mind, yet were very comprehensibly described in the book.
Vlad sasses Sethra so so much, even more than usual. Maybe all the enforced solitude in the woods has done this to him.
I feel like Vlad in general seems to be more easily annoyed by everyone around him in this book than usual, and have a theory that this is EXACTLY why - all that time alone in the woods made him unused to being around people. He seems more closed off and abrasive with them than he was when we last saw him with his friend group a couple of books ago. I may be reaching a bit here, but the books are so careful with the character touches that it wouldn't surprise me if this is intentional.
I love that Morrolan went down to his weapons storeroom, filled up a bag of daggers, and gave Vlad the bag because he knew Vlad had depleted his and would probably be feeling quite at sea without them.
Yes, this was adorable. Vlad's not feeling well, give him a bag of daggers! And also brought him Roczsha - I can't remember how to spell it exactly - but I love that Vlad's jhereg (plural) are comfortable with his friends, even her, as wild as she is.
I'm pretty sure we know that Aliera got Pathfinder fully made, but I don't think we know anything about Blackwand, do we? It's possible that she(?) was made by Morrolan just as we saw Vlad make a weapon of Lady Teldra. (;___;)
In continuing bits of gender-stereotype-avoidance that please me in these books, I like that Morrolan's terrifyingly violent sword reads female to Vlad, while Aliera's relatively sedate one reads as gender-neutral.
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Date: Oct. 15th, 2021 02:36 pm (UTC)OMG, I never picked up on that little contradiction, and that's WONDERFUL! Also, ouch.
but I don't think we know anything about Blackwand, do we? It's possible that she(?) was made by Morrolan just as we saw Vlad make a weapon of Lady Teldra. (;___;)
We do see Morrolan get Blackwand in Paarfi, and if Paarfi is to be believed (which is generally a very big if, IMO), it seems to be functional as a Great Weapon from the start, so would suggest it came to Morrolan complete. But I don't have any solid sense that Paarfi understands Great Weapons, so he could easily be missing things, even more than usual. There are little remarks from a couple of the Great Weapons wielders that raise very interesting points that we never saw play out with Pathfinder or Blackwand, and I've always wondered if it's because they happened "offscreen" or if that aspect is not as universal as the GW wielder thinks or what.
I like that Morrolan's terrifyingly violent sword reads female to Vlad, while Aliera's relatively sedate one reads as gender-neutral.
Yes, I've always really liked this bit as well! (The swords' personalities are good complements to their owners, too, which I've always liked. Aliera could use some sedateness; Morrolan is relatively easy-going for a Dragonlord.)
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Date: Oct. 15th, 2021 03:27 pm (UTC)Aliera could use some sedateness; Morrolan is relatively easy-going for a Dragonlord.
Could not agree more!
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Date: Oct. 15th, 2021 03:17 pm (UTC)Loiosh says it's because he's [Vlad] become more introspective. Also to be fair he's rather in emotional turmoil for...a lot of this. Lol. He thinks his arm is damaged forever maybe. I too would be alarmed if Sethra was all "i dunno if this can be fixed". Ooof.
Yeah Pathfinder was just concealed within that clumsy sword of Barritt's, which is one of Dragon's plots (Sethra the Younger smashes it against Blackwand and that forces it out). So more or less full made. But I don't remember anything about Blackwand's origin. :0 the backstory on Blackwand would be so cool.
Yes totally agree about the swords and personality!! It's refreshing AND also not made a big deal out of, which I appreciate.
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Date: Oct. 15th, 2021 03:43 pm (UTC)*Loiosh really respects Sethra and let her scratch his ears! Is this because she also served him a dead teckla that one time? :D
That's my guess, haha. Sethra strated their relationship off right :DD
*Vlad sasses Sethra so so much, even more than usual. Maybe all the enforced solitude in the woods has done this to him. After all, Loiosh has him beat in the sarcasm department.
That makes a lot of sense to me, in general. (Also, he might be feeling more comfortable with Sethra than previously thanks to what he learned in Orca).
This is clearly a reference to Vlad's son which he still has no idea about, yes?! Morrolan knows about him, clearly! oh my gOD
That's definitely how I've always read it, yeah. I'm not surprised Morrolan knows, because Aliera seemed to be involved in the birth, but I do wonder how various characters felt about not telling Vlad he had a kid in Adrilankha... There are solid pragmatic reasons for it, but still...
We get a lot of the Morrolan backstory, at greater length, in Paarfi, including him and Teldra meeting and asking Sethra for tribute. It is extremely hilarious. (You have to get to book 3, Paths of the Dead, for it to start showing up, and then most of it is in Lord of Castle Black, unsurprisingly, which is book 4.)
I really like that translation of Morrolan's name, and there are some lovely bits involving it in Paarfi as well.
*This is pretty sad though, because Morrolan definitely outlived his foster parents :( While he was very young, by Dragaeran standards.
Yeah, I've always wondered about this, actually. One thing we don't get to see from Paarfi is Morrolan's childhood in the East -- we meet him when he's young, but no longer a child -- and, he seems remarkably well-adjusted for somehone who must have lost his foster parents at a young age, and probably more than one set of foster parents, and must have also continuously outgrown whatever peer group he played with. We don't really get to see Dragaeran children (or at least not ones who experience linear time XD), so I don't have any idea of how Dragaerans mature physically or emotionally up to the age when we meet Savn (who I think of as the equivalent of a young teen, maybe 14-15?) and Polyi (whom I was thinking of as ~12 in human terms).
*I love that when Verra speaks and there are others around, they clearly hear something slightly (or sometimes very) different. It's a great way of illustrating how unlike the Dragaerans and humans she is and the way she can manifest in multiple places, etc.
Yes! I love the group conversation with Verra -- it's such a neat way of showing rather than telling the way a god is different from other beings!
They do fight a lot and Vlad's been sick of it since about when they rescued Aliera, this has been building up for some time.
True, lol! And more than fair XD
*I have questions about Aliera's parentage though. She's the daughter of Verra and Adron? Uhh....how did that even happen?! That's quite the reversal of the usual god and human union configuration.
I'm sad to say we never get any details on that score in Paarfi, but we do get to see Adron find out about it, and it's a moment I love.
Also the time of the greatest sorcerous education for him was when he was feeling extremely negatively of Dragaerans.
That's a really good point, too. It's a wonder Vlad learned any sorcery at all, honestly...
though also one of the reasons Vlad survives, which Lady Teldra can't see, is because he's the main character ;)
Hahaha (but yeah)
Sethra is probably exhausted by young people, i.e. the population of the entire world. I absolutely understand why she sits in Dzur Mountain by herself.
And LOL at this too!
I also love the detail of Morrolan brinding Vlad a bag of weapons (and his jhereg) to make him feel more comfortable. It's those little thoughtful touches, you know XD
It makes me wonder who's in Pathfinder and Iceflame and Blackwand.
There's some fan speculation on this, but mostly things that require the breaking of time and space (although that may well be possible in Dragaera). Some people have latched on to the ambiguous gender sense of Pathfinder to hypothesize that it contains Drien's soul, which would be kind of cool.
"and that’s how Pathfinder had saved Aliera’s life". I assume this refers to the time they were working to assassinate Mellar and they trick him into stabbing Aliera with a Morganti dagger. The sentience of Pathfinder? Can't really tell.
I assume it refers to the Mellar thing, yeah. I feel like the Great Weapon sort of acts as an anchor for the wielder's soul, and because it's stronger than a regular Morganti dagger, it gets to keep the sould rather than having the soul eaten by the regular Morganti weapon. But I'm also totally making this up -- I don't think anything in the actual books explains in what way the GW preserves its wielder's life in those circumstances.
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Date: Oct. 17th, 2021 04:00 am (UTC)RE Vlad's kid, doesn't Cawti not want Kiera to tell him in Orca? I think one of the interstitial conversations where Kiera relates the tale to Cawti mentions Kiera is respecting Cawti's wishes in the matter.
OMG yay I'm so looking forward to more Morrolan backstory. I've gotten so fond of him.
Agree with your assessment of the Savn and Polyi's ages. There's also the Orca youth hanging around Northport in Orca which read very much as rebellious or homeless urchins, they're around 70 years old.
Oh that's interesting speculation about the sword!
It feels like the Great Weapons get to choose what happens to the soul - kind of ties into the sentience thing. Like Loraan came back as undead. And I could see Pathfinder 'fight' with the Morganti sword for the soul, especially if it's Aliera's sword, since Pathfinder loves Aliera!
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Date: Oct. 17th, 2021 06:57 pm (UTC)Yes, that's what I recall, too. So I assume the reason Aliera, Morrolan, Sethra, and Teldra are not telling Vlad is also that they're honoring Cawti's wishes in the matter, but I wonder if any of them agree that this is the best course of action. I could see Sethra thinking so, because it's safer for Vlad, and probably also safer for the kid, and I could definitely see her taking the long view.
But I suspect the Dragonlords would feel like a much better solution would be to move everyone they care about, and the people those people care about, into Castle Black and/or the Dragon wing of the Palace, and if the Jhereg want to start a third Dragon-Jhereg war about it -- bring it on. (Also, we don't hear about it much because of limited POV, but I feel like both Aliera and Morrolan are bound to have some strong feelings about the importance of parent-child relationships; Aliera certainly seems to have been very close to her father, even as a young adult (per Paarfi and the fact that she still refers to Adron as "Daddy"). Morrolan presumably did not have a chance to know his parents, but clearly places a lot of importance on family given the lengths he is prepared to go to for Aliera. So I wonder how they feel about helping keep Vlad's child secret from him, and keeping them out of each other's lives... I suspect even Morrolan doesn't really grasp just how much of his kid's formative years Vlad is missing, given the different maturation rates of Easterners and Dragaerans -- he can't possibly have been paying much attention to that sort of thing when living in the East, or he would've figured something out sooner XD -- but still...)
OMG yay I'm so looking forward to more Morrolan backstory. I've gotten so fond of him.
Yay, I'm very happy to hear that! :D
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Date: Oct. 17th, 2021 10:52 pm (UTC)Oh, that's a really good point about Morrolan, and Vlad's other Dragaeran friends, not quite realizing how much he's missing out on! That was always my biggest issue with everyone keeping it from him - I get why they're doing it (as a combination of respecting Cawti's wishes, and not wanting to burden Vlad with it when he literally CAN'T come back) but he is missing out on an awful lot of irreplaceable time. That does make sense, though, that the Dragaerans don't quite get it on a core-deep level since they think of childhood as being several decades long rather than a decade and a half.
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Date: Oct. 19th, 2021 12:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Oct. 19th, 2021 06:49 am (UTC)That does make sense, though, that the Dragaerans don't quite get it on a core-deep level since they think of childhood as being several decades long
They're probably like, "Kid's four years old... uh, what do Easterners do at that age -- crawling yet? Saying words?" (Even without species difference, being the first in my group of friends to have a baby made me realize just how vaguely people who don't/haven't dealt with young children day to day understand early childhood milestones. The different maturation rates with Dragaerans has got to make that about a thousand times worse...)
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Date: Oct. 18th, 2021 07:26 pm (UTC)God, Castle Black would be such a weird place to grow up. It's safe, yes, but it's also...floating a mile up, and also people have duels to the revivifiable death in it every day :O
Could Morrolan host Jhereg in his place indefinitely like that? Would the Council be angry with him about it? It would certainly be a signal to the Jhereg Council that Morrolan is shielding someone they have put out a hit on, and not just any hit - a hit because Vlad squealed to the EMPIRE. :X They might go after Morrolan if he did, tbh. Offering sanctuary to a Mellar wasn't seen as an antagonistic move, but the Demon was perfectly happy to eliminate Morrolan for necessity's sake, but harbouring Vlad's kid and former wife...I dunno. I wonder what the Jhereg Council thinks of Cawti. Do they consider her to still be part of the Organization even though she doesn't take jobs any more?
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Date: Oct. 19th, 2021 03:20 am (UTC)Castle Black would be such a weird place to grow up. It's safe, yes, but it's also...floating a mile up, and also people have duels to the revivifiable death in it every day :O
Yeah, no kidding XD It would be super weird, but I could also see it being really fun for a kid. (I definitely don't see Cawti approving of a child of hers growing up in a duke's floating castle, though...)
Could Morrolan host Jhereg in his place indefinitely like that?
I feel like Morrolan's answer to that would be "yes", but that doesn't mean that it would be at all a good idea. I don't know that Cawti and kid would cause problems if Vlad wasn't also there, but I definitely think Jhereg Council would go after Vlad if he was in Castle Black, and Morrolan of course would insist on doing his utmost to protect him, which would make him a target as well, and I do think the endpoint of this would be full-scale Dragon-Jhereg War. Which I suspect Morrolan would be fine with, but it's possible that people who remember the previous one (like Sethra) would be less sanguine.
Do they consider her to still be part of the Organization even though she doesn't take jobs any more?
I don't think we get a definitive answer to this, but there is a later book that involves Cawti and the Jhereg, and, having read it... I'm honestly still not sure XD
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Date: Oct. 19th, 2021 03:46 pm (UTC)tiny!Vlad would probably have a GREAT time running about. I believe there are probably Easterners there, too (and I'm sure Morrolan would enforce politeness towards Easterners via swordpoint if necessary) since Morrolan has that circle of witches. I assume those are predominantly all Easterners if not all.
Agree completely that if Vlad was there, the Jhereg Council would go after Morrolan and that yes it would end up a whole third Dragon-Jhereg War. Sethra would probably be dismayed but I am sure a lot of Dragons would be overjoyed to get to fight so much. lmao
LOL. We hear about Vlad's mixed feelings about the Organization but I can only imagine Cawti's are even more conflicted. She's stepped much, much further away. And given usual mob dynamics, I can't imagine one can simply 'walk away' that easily...
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Date: Oct. 20th, 2021 03:32 am (UTC)Very true! There were definitely parts of the 0-4 timeframe that I would've been OK missing out on, haha.
I believe there are probably Easterners there, too (and I'm sure Morrolan would enforce politeness towards Easterners via swordpoint if necessary) since Morrolan has that circle of witches. I assume those are predominantly all Easterners if not all.
I think there's got to be, for those reasons, yeah -- he has a Circle of Witches, who are probably all Easterners, since I don't think we ever hear of another non-Easterner witch other than Morrolan himself.
I was discussing this with another friend, and we both wonder why these other Easterners never seem to cross Vlad's path. Does Vlad just never talk about them because he likes feeling like he's Morrolan's primary Easterner/Witch Friend? Is Morrolan keeping his other witches/Easterners away from Vlad because Vlad's Jhereg ways would be a bad influence?
(My personal favorite hypothesis, as a Vlad/Morrolan shipper, is that Morrolan is doing the equivalent of a nerdy girl pretending to be bad at math so she can get tutored by the hot guy in her algebra class, keeping all his witches away from Vlad so he can have plausible deniability to ask Vlad for witchcraft tips (which he certainly does a bunch, at least according to Vlad). And, like, Vlad is for sure an extraordinary witch -- the spell in Taltos certainly is proof of that. But if Paarfi is to be believed, and I do think he is reasonably trustworthy on this particular score, Morrolan does know at least one other extraordinary witch, and for way longer than he's known Vlad.)
And given usual mob dynamics, I can't imagine one can simply 'walk away' that easily.
Yeah... We do get some interesting insights in this later book, so I will definitely be curious to see what you think when you get to it.
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Date: Oct. 26th, 2021 05:46 pm (UTC)And Noish-pa is very surprised at Morrolan being a witch. Doesn't he say something like "how can this elf know the Art?" So yeah I think you're right, his circle is almost certainly 100% Easterners. Though I do wonder if they live in Castle Black. Maybe they don't, they could live in Southmoor (lol) or something, and Morrolan visits them or asks them to appear sometimes or something.
LOL Morrolan does kinda ask (or get) Vlad's advice. Like the time Vlad interrupts a witchcraft thing (I think maybe in Teckla) and Vlad's like "you are using the wrong plant". That's a very good point about Vlad's ability, too. He invents a whole spell!!
Cool!! Cawti's case is certainly complicated, too, since it's quite clear she has a very strong ally in Norathar, and Norathar is uniquely in the Dragon heir and the next cycle is of the Dragon, so it's probably like trying to threaten the next king's heir's best friend. Perhaps even the Jhereg would tread carefully there. It's not like she's a random cog in the Organization.
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Date: Oct. 27th, 2021 03:26 am (UTC)Yeah, good point -- I think it's probably safe to conclude Morrolan is an anomaly in that and all his witches are Easterners.
I was assuming they live in Castle Black, though whether that's because I'm extrapolating from Paarfi or just because I was assuming that he would want to keep them close and defensible, I don't remember anymore. (My suspicion is that Morrolan has, like, not set foot on the ground in Southmoor in the last 200 years, because between the floating castle and teleportation, why would you need to?)
and Norathar is uniquely in the Dragon heir and the next cycle is of the Dragon, so it's probably like trying to threaten the next king's heir's best friend
Yep, exactly. And it's interesting, because the way the succession works, with the Cycle, is that usually you never know if the next Emperor is going to be the heir of the present one, or if the Cycle is going to turn and it's going to be the Heir of the next House in line. But given that Zerika has no heirs and there are no other Phoenix with whom she could create any, so you pretty much know it's going to be Norathar next. And the Jhereg are pretty low in the Cycle, which IIRC is supposed to correspond to not having much political power. So, yeah, if I were the Organization, I would be very leery of pissing off the Dragon Heir by tangling with her best friend.
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Date: Oct. 27th, 2021 07:13 pm (UTC)That's an interesting thought about the succession. It does add some additional uncertainty, but then again, succession uncertainty is sort of inherent in pretty much all the inheritance style governments. So many declared heirs that didn't work out for various reasons...But yeah, it's almost certainly Dragon next. And judging from Soffta and such, the Jhereg (despite being a mob organization) still do attempt to participate in the legitimate power channels like being at the palace, and try hard to not get in its way or call attention to their illegal activity.