Issola - Steven Brust

[silverflight8]

Another one I really enjoyed. Attempting to talk about involves so many spoilers though so:


*NOOOO that's not okay Steven Brust! How dare!!

*I had such a bad feeling as soon as Lady Teldra stabbed the Jenoine. It was just written in a way that was screaming something really awful was about to happen. Plus it happened after Morrolan was killed so the stakes were definitely going to be higher. What a way to go, but how dare this happen to Lady Teldra! I really liked her, even back when we only knew she was the person greeting Vlad at the door (and discomfiting him by being so nice and even convincing him she was sincere about welcoming him). How! Dare!

*I absolutely loved that Lady Teldra managed to track him down in the woods. OK, she had Sethra's help, but still. I loved that she knew to stop well before she freaked out Vlad enough to make him do something he'd regret. Honestly the whole sequence before they get to Dzur Mountain is so great.

*Loiosh really respects Sethra and let her scratch his ears! Is this because she also served him a dead teckla that one time? :D

*Super interesting about the Paths of the Dead and their purpose. It also makes me wonder why Loraan was returned as undead (though that might also have been Blackwand's doing - it was Morrolan who killed him).

*Vlad sasses Sethra so so much, even more than usual. Maybe all the enforced solitude in the woods has done this to him. After all, Loiosh has him beat in the sarcasm department. But Vlad! Don't roll your eyes at the explanation is the one you demanded yourself! lol

*There's no way in hell Vlad would hear that Morrolan and Aliera were captured and needed help, and not go and help them. Stop fighting yourself and just take Sethra's suggestion to help them!

“That’s why we were taken,” said Aliera, giving me a look. “In order to coerce Vlad into doing what they want.”

“You’d think,” said Morrolan, “that if that was true, they’d have taken Cawti, or better yet—” He broke off abruptly and scowled.

This is clearly a reference to Vlad's son which he still has no idea about, yes?! Morrolan knows about him, clearly! oh my gOD

*We got so much good backstory!!

*Morrolan's backstory in the East! Oh my god he thought he was an Easterner? He was raised by them because his parents died? He thought he was just a freakishly tall human? hahahahaha oh my god. I assume that Dragaerans mostly grow physically as quickly as Easterners do, although of course Dragaerans consider eg 90 year olds to be young kids and 500 to be young adults, but it's not like Vlad feels Savn to be physically child sized or anything.

*Awwww

She nodded. “His name at the time was Fenarian: Sötétcsilleg. ‘Morrolan’ is just the same thing, rendered into the ancient tongue of the Dragon.”

Google Translate says this is Hungarian (as is all the Fenarian in these books, as far as I can tell) for Dark Star. Which is wonderful.

*This is pretty sad though, because Morrolan definitely outlived his foster parents :( While he was very young, by Dragaeran standards.

*Lady Teldra and Morrolan met in the East! Morrolan hired her to make up for his flaws, which yes, is pretty far-sighted of him, considering how old he is.

*I am dying at the recounting of Morrolan charging up Dzur Mountain because Sethra didn't pay tribute and Dzur Mountain is within his fief - and Vlad wondering but scared to ask whether in present day, Sethra pays Morrolan anything. I'm not sure which is funnier, honestly.

*I loved that Loiosh called himself cute (yes, yes you are!!) while the rest of them are attempting to digest the idea that the Jenoine barely consider them a threat, like a kitten playing with a string, cute, hardly worth planning around.

[Lady Teldra:] “I am still considering the matter and trying to understand, but it seems to me that they spoke to me—insofar as I could perceive tone—in the tone one might use to, well, a greeterbird. They were amused that I could form any sort of coherent thought; they think we’re cute.”

“Cute,” said Aliera e’Kieron.

“Cute,” said Morrolan e’Drien.

“I am cute,” said Loiosh.

*We found out who Drien was!

*I love that when Verra speaks and there are others around, they clearly hear something slightly (or sometimes very) different. It's a great way of illustrating how unlike the Dragaerans and humans she is and the way she can manifest in multiple places, etc.

*Oh my god, Vlad's outburst about Morrolan and Aliera. They do fight a lot and Vlad's been sick of it since about when they rescued Aliera, this has been building up for some time.

*I have questions about Aliera's parentage though. She's the daughter of Verra and Adron? Uhh....how did that even happen?! That's quite the reversal of the usual god and human union configuration.

*I loved the depiction of the outside of the little prison the Jenoine placed them in. It reminds me of the xkcd strip https://xkcd.com/1472/

*We got way more sorcerous/witchcraft explanation! I loved that Aliera filled in the basics and then just said bluntly "Your education was sadly lacking." lmao. For one, he hasn't had 500 years to learn, ok! Also the time of the greatest sorcerous education for him was when he was feeling extremely negatively of Dragaerans. But it was cool to learn more of amorphia - I kind of think of it as antimatter now. It was interesting also to think of the Jenoine thinking so radically different - of how to them physically moving is like spiritwalking, and breaking an illusion to look around is more like moving from places (though Lady Teldra calls this not quite accurate but close). An interesting concept and one that makes the Jeonine satisfyingly alien.

*I love that Lady Teldra learned to speak Jenoine at one point. Also that Morrolan is taken aback that she knows!

*I enjoy the conversation Lady Teldra and Vlad have about courtesy, and I totally broadly agree, though also one of the reasons Vlad survives, which Lady Teldra can't see, is because he's the main character ;)

*Loved this exchange. Sethra is probably exhausted by young people, i.e. the population of the entire world. I absolutely understand why she sits in Dzur Mountain by herself.

“Defense,” said Morrolan like it was something foul. “Why not attack them instead? I’ve always preferred attacking to defending.”
“I know,” said Sethra. “But you are still young, and may yet learn.”

*Aww, I love that Morrolan went down to his weapons storeroom, filled up a bag of daggers, and gave Vlad the bag because he knew Vlad had depleted his and would probably be feeling quite at sea without them.

I moaned softly. Sethra said, “Is the arm beginning to hurt?”

“No,” said Aliera. “That’s his moan of contentment after a good meal.”

“Now, how would you know that?” I asked her.

She gave me an inscrutable smile that she must have learned from Morrolan. I grunted and drank some more, and enjoyed the transitory sense of contentment I was feeling.

*I love that Aliera knows this! You can read between the lines at how many meals they've all had together (and food matters a lot to Vlad!)

*Some insane amounts of power brought to bear at the battle at the end! Wow. And here's Vlad again (this is the second time in this book alone) where he is hanging back, feeling outclassed and without a specific role, jumping in because he feels bad or he needs to help. Oh, Vlad.

*I really enjoyed how so many threads about the Great Weapons and Morganti weapons came together. Especially the Serioli's remark, when Morrolan and Vlad show up - the Serioli says "why do you only introduce me to 2 out of 5 of your party? Because one of them is half-there?" It's Morrolan, Vlad, Loiosh, and then Blackwand and Spellbreaker, half of the weapon. It makes me wonder who's in Pathfinder and Iceflame and Blackwand.

*Though I'm still a little unsure of this line: "and that’s how Pathfinder had saved Aliera’s life". I assume this refers to the time they were working to assassinate Mellar and they trick him into stabbing Aliera with a Morganti dagger. The sentience of Pathfinder? Can't really tell.

*I love that the Jhereg's threat of assassination via Morganti dagger now is like, nothing for him. Yeah, I don't think Morrolan or Aliera or Sethra are that concerned about Morganti weapons being aimed at them, either. And I absolutely love that he immediately has himself teleported to Valabar's to have a nice meal. RELATABLE

Comments

[hamsterwoman]

RE Vlad's kid, doesn't Cawti not want Kiera to tell him in Orca?

Yes, that's what I recall, too. So I assume the reason Aliera, Morrolan, Sethra, and Teldra are not telling Vlad is also that they're honoring Cawti's wishes in the matter, but I wonder if any of them agree that this is the best course of action. I could see Sethra thinking so, because it's safer for Vlad, and probably also safer for the kid, and I could definitely see her taking the long view.

But I suspect the Dragonlords would feel like a much better solution would be to move everyone they care about, and the people those people care about, into Castle Black and/or the Dragon wing of the Palace, and if the Jhereg want to start a third Dragon-Jhereg war about it -- bring it on. (Also, we don't hear about it much because of limited POV, but I feel like both Aliera and Morrolan are bound to have some strong feelings about the importance of parent-child relationships; Aliera certainly seems to have been very close to her father, even as a young adult (per Paarfi and the fact that she still refers to Adron as "Daddy"). Morrolan presumably did not have a chance to know his parents, but clearly places a lot of importance on family given the lengths he is prepared to go to for Aliera. So I wonder how they feel about helping keep Vlad's child secret from him, and keeping them out of each other's lives... I suspect even Morrolan doesn't really grasp just how much of his kid's formative years Vlad is missing, given the different maturation rates of Easterners and Dragaerans -- he can't possibly have been paying much attention to that sort of thing when living in the East, or he would've figured something out sooner XD -- but still...)

OMG yay I'm so looking forward to more Morrolan backstory. I've gotten so fond of him.

Yay, I'm very happy to hear that! :D

[sholio]

I suspect even Morrolan doesn't really grasp just how much of his kid's formative years Vlad is missing, given the different maturation rates of Easterners and Dragaerans -- he can't possibly have been paying much attention to that sort of thing when living in the East, or he would've figured something out sooner XD

Oh, that's a really good point about Morrolan, and Vlad's other Dragaeran friends, not quite realizing how much he's missing out on! That was always my biggest issue with everyone keeping it from him - I get why they're doing it (as a combination of respecting Cawti's wishes, and not wanting to burden Vlad with it when he literally CAN'T come back) but he is missing out on an awful lot of irreplaceable time. That does make sense, though, that the Dragaerans don't quite get it on a core-deep level since they think of childhood as being several decades long rather than a decade and a half.

[silverflight8]

Plus, even though Morrolan might know, he's also like 400 years old, and if Dragaerans are anything like humans, their memories are not perfect and they get mistier as time goes by. I barely remember what I had for breakfast this morning...Morrolan has lived another 350 or so probably since his early childhood and he's done a lot of other things since then which have occupied a lot of memory!

[hamsterwoman]

That part always bugged me, too...

That does make sense, though, that the Dragaerans don't quite get it on a core-deep level since they think of childhood as being several decades long

They're probably like, "Kid's four years old... uh, what do Easterners do at that age -- crawling yet? Saying words?" (Even without species difference, being the first in my group of friends to have a baby made me realize just how vaguely people who don't/haven't dealt with young children day to day understand early childhood milestones. The different maturation rates with Dragaerans has got to make that about a thousand times worse...)

[silverflight8]

Oof, yeah :( So far I think it's only been a few years (plus when Vlad left, Cawti either didn't know and wasn't showing, so it must have been quite early)...so that's still not too too bad. Vlad won't see his kid as an infant, but infants can't really remember either. But past that...:( His father's gonna be like a stranger.

God, Castle Black would be such a weird place to grow up. It's safe, yes, but it's also...floating a mile up, and also people have duels to the revivifiable death in it every day :O

Could Morrolan host Jhereg in his place indefinitely like that? Would the Council be angry with him about it? It would certainly be a signal to the Jhereg Council that Morrolan is shielding someone they have put out a hit on, and not just any hit - a hit because Vlad squealed to the EMPIRE. :X They might go after Morrolan if he did, tbh. Offering sanctuary to a Mellar wasn't seen as an antagonistic move, but the Demon was perfectly happy to eliminate Morrolan for necessity's sake, but harbouring Vlad's kid and former wife...I dunno. I wonder what the Jhereg Council thinks of Cawti. Do they consider her to still be part of the Organization even though she doesn't take jobs any more?

[hamsterwoman]

The Dragaera timeline I linked you to earlier -- which, I think at this point I think you've reached most of the big spoilers for the Vlad books and is thus I think no longer quite so dangerous to browse, BUT if you're going to read Paarfi, there are definitely still Paarfi spoilers floating out there -- anyway, the timeline sets Vlad's kid's birth in 244 Post Ingerregnum, with Issola taking place in 248 PI. So, if kid is about 4, that's probably still before their continuous memories start, but from Vlad's POV, he will have missed out on a lot of big milestones already, of course.

Castle Black would be such a weird place to grow up. It's safe, yes, but it's also...floating a mile up, and also people have duels to the revivifiable death in it every day :O

Yeah, no kidding XD It would be super weird, but I could also see it being really fun for a kid. (I definitely don't see Cawti approving of a child of hers growing up in a duke's floating castle, though...)

Could Morrolan host Jhereg in his place indefinitely like that?

I feel like Morrolan's answer to that would be "yes", but that doesn't mean that it would be at all a good idea. I don't know that Cawti and kid would cause problems if Vlad wasn't also there, but I definitely think Jhereg Council would go after Vlad if he was in Castle Black, and Morrolan of course would insist on doing his utmost to protect him, which would make him a target as well, and I do think the endpoint of this would be full-scale Dragon-Jhereg War. Which I suspect Morrolan would be fine with, but it's possible that people who remember the previous one (like Sethra) would be less sanguine.


Do they consider her to still be part of the Organization even though she doesn't take jobs any more?

I don't think we get a definitive answer to this, but there is a later book that involves Cawti and the Jhereg, and, having read it... I'm honestly still not sure XD

[silverflight8]

Hm, interesting! So yeah, at this stage, Vlad is missing out on all the adorable infant and young child stages, seeing his son experience the world etc (but also, fortunately for him, missing out on the terrible toddler years?)

tiny!Vlad would probably have a GREAT time running about. I believe there are probably Easterners there, too (and I'm sure Morrolan would enforce politeness towards Easterners via swordpoint if necessary) since Morrolan has that circle of witches. I assume those are predominantly all Easterners if not all.

Agree completely that if Vlad was there, the Jhereg Council would go after Morrolan and that yes it would end up a whole third Dragon-Jhereg War. Sethra would probably be dismayed but I am sure a lot of Dragons would be overjoyed to get to fight so much. lmao

LOL. We hear about Vlad's mixed feelings about the Organization but I can only imagine Cawti's are even more conflicted. She's stepped much, much further away. And given usual mob dynamics, I can't imagine one can simply 'walk away' that easily...

[hamsterwoman]

(but also, fortunately for him, missing out on the terrible toddler years?)

Very true! There were definitely parts of the 0-4 timeframe that I would've been OK missing out on, haha.

I believe there are probably Easterners there, too (and I'm sure Morrolan would enforce politeness towards Easterners via swordpoint if necessary) since Morrolan has that circle of witches. I assume those are predominantly all Easterners if not all.

I think there's got to be, for those reasons, yeah -- he has a Circle of Witches, who are probably all Easterners, since I don't think we ever hear of another non-Easterner witch other than Morrolan himself.

I was discussing this with another friend, and we both wonder why these other Easterners never seem to cross Vlad's path. Does Vlad just never talk about them because he likes feeling like he's Morrolan's primary Easterner/Witch Friend? Is Morrolan keeping his other witches/Easterners away from Vlad because Vlad's Jhereg ways would be a bad influence?

(My personal favorite hypothesis, as a Vlad/Morrolan shipper, is that Morrolan is doing the equivalent of a nerdy girl pretending to be bad at math so she can get tutored by the hot guy in her algebra class, keeping all his witches away from Vlad so he can have plausible deniability to ask Vlad for witchcraft tips (which he certainly does a bunch, at least according to Vlad). And, like, Vlad is for sure an extraordinary witch -- the spell in Taltos certainly is proof of that. But if Paarfi is to be believed, and I do think he is reasonably trustworthy on this particular score, Morrolan does know at least one other extraordinary witch, and for way longer than he's known Vlad.)

And given usual mob dynamics, I can't imagine one can simply 'walk away' that easily.

Yeah... We do get some interesting insights in this later book, so I will definitely be curious to see what you think when you get to it.

[silverflight8]

lol Vlad still hasn't had to change a single diaper. Maybe he'd come up with some innovations though! Like his wheely chair, but like, a better changing table :) Or just sorcery-away the messes...

And Noish-pa is very surprised at Morrolan being a witch. Doesn't he say something like "how can this elf know the Art?" So yeah I think you're right, his circle is almost certainly 100% Easterners. Though I do wonder if they live in Castle Black. Maybe they don't, they could live in Southmoor (lol) or something, and Morrolan visits them or asks them to appear sometimes or something.

LOL Morrolan does kinda ask (or get) Vlad's advice. Like the time Vlad interrupts a witchcraft thing (I think maybe in Teckla) and Vlad's like "you are using the wrong plant". That's a very good point about Vlad's ability, too. He invents a whole spell!!

Cool!! Cawti's case is certainly complicated, too, since it's quite clear she has a very strong ally in Norathar, and Norathar is uniquely in the Dragon heir and the next cycle is of the Dragon, so it's probably like trying to threaten the next king's heir's best friend. Perhaps even the Jhereg would tread carefully there. It's not like she's a random cog in the Organization.

[hamsterwoman]

And Noish-pa is very surprised at Morrolan being a witch. Doesn't he say something like "how can this elf know the Art?"

Yeah, good point -- I think it's probably safe to conclude Morrolan is an anomaly in that and all his witches are Easterners.

I was assuming they live in Castle Black, though whether that's because I'm extrapolating from Paarfi or just because I was assuming that he would want to keep them close and defensible, I don't remember anymore. (My suspicion is that Morrolan has, like, not set foot on the ground in Southmoor in the last 200 years, because between the floating castle and teleportation, why would you need to?)

and Norathar is uniquely in the Dragon heir and the next cycle is of the Dragon, so it's probably like trying to threaten the next king's heir's best friend

Yep, exactly. And it's interesting, because the way the succession works, with the Cycle, is that usually you never know if the next Emperor is going to be the heir of the present one, or if the Cycle is going to turn and it's going to be the Heir of the next House in line. But given that Zerika has no heirs and there are no other Phoenix with whom she could create any, so you pretty much know it's going to be Norathar next. And the Jhereg are pretty low in the Cycle, which IIRC is supposed to correspond to not having much political power. So, yeah, if I were the Organization, I would be very leery of pissing off the Dragon Heir by tangling with her best friend.

[silverflight8]

I would honestly believe either, that the Circle lives at Castle Black or somewhere else in Morrolan's fief. And LOL. Teleportation really means you don't even have to see the places in between if you don't want to, huh?

That's an interesting thought about the succession. It does add some additional uncertainty, but then again, succession uncertainty is sort of inherent in pretty much all the inheritance style governments. So many declared heirs that didn't work out for various reasons...But yeah, it's almost certainly Dragon next. And judging from Soffta and such, the Jhereg (despite being a mob organization) still do attempt to participate in the legitimate power channels like being at the palace, and try hard to not get in its way or call attention to their illegal activity.