silver

Do let me know when you publish it! Holy cow I thought no one would say anything. :DDD

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pipisafoat

dinosaurs on spaceships
FIREFLY. okay so they're toy dinosaurs and also it's not a book, but still! curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

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Farscape is in space? In my defense, people only talk about it in passing...

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pipisafoat

what hello yes? Firefly & Farscape are both space things. (Also that Farscape has no dinosaurs, but not-even-human-looking aliens are main characters, which makes me very happy. And some human-looking aliens, because otherwise that crap gets expensive.)

damn you now I want to watch Farscape! but it's not streaming on Netflix anymore!

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I knew about Firefly (ages afterwards....) but I had no idea about Farscape. Huh.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

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pipisafoat

Farscape is one of those things I was like "oh it's got those actors i like in it; i guess i'll try it" and then it was all "hey i also have aliens on my cover / netflix art" and I watched it and then suddenly I was "THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER."

srsly, highly recommended.

also i think i only have 2 farscape icons so.

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Hahaha yeah, truth in advertising!

I don't want to fall into another tv show! They are so hard to get a hold of (speaking of which I still haven't seen the fourth season of IPS, much less the fifth.)

I like how your icon has all the primary colours in a swirl :D

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kmo

interested to hear your thoughts on The Thief! the next books in the series are way more adult in nature, but i still enjoyed the first one and its use of mythology. and i am waaaay behind on my book reviews. i owe you a review of Indigo Springs!

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spoiler: I LOVED IT

But first I have to finish fic for an exchange.

Oooh, I'm interested in your thoughts on Indigo Springs!

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pipisafoat

(to get off tv and back on books, i shall just make a new thread!)

ALSO. secondary world fantasy. IS THAT THE GENRE I HAVE BEEN READING??? where it's actually totally fantasy except they're like "also we came on spaceships from earth and that is how i get to add creatures like giant telepathic cats"?? because I like that.

ooh also OSC's original short story that ended up being, I think it was the precursor to The Worthing Saga? how he submitted it for a scifi short story collection and they were like "this is great! only it's fantasy, not scifi." although the actual book ends up being like half and half, it's kind of impressive. ditto um Pathfinder and its followers.

while I am talking at you / asking genre questions, please inform: if someone says "historic science fiction" is that at all different from "steampunk" and if so how?

also that i looooove historic fantasy but have such trouble finding. any recommendations? (like, i love the Alvin Maker series by OSC, and the girl-with-books-and-fairies that i read because of your review, and those are all i can think of off the top of my head? but. yes. that book pretty sold me on trying aaaaaanything you tell me to hahaha.)

THIS IS A LOT OF THINGS IN ONE COMMENT SORRY. i will use my "fantasy reader" icon as i call it in my head.

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I think I usually see secondary world as like "this world which we didn't enter via portal or anything, this is just our land, what do you mean these things called 'cars'?" Just...no overt reference to planet Earth at all. I'd call going to other planets a portal kind of fantasy if I had to fit it into the 4 genre thingies (Farah Mendelsohn has a really interesting book about it, called "Rhetorics of Fantasy") I think of secondary world as your protagonists being already familiar with the world--that's where they grew up, etc.

haha yeah, I think science fiction & fantasy really don't have a lot of differences once you get down to it. A lot of blurring and random books straddling both.

Hm, I think steampunk is like a subsection (but I've got to say I've never heard the term historical science fiction; to me the biggest outward distinguishing feature of sf is the future aspect). Steampunk is modelled on Victorian England for the most part and tends to be full of gears, steam-power, smoke & fog, airships, maybe somewhat antiquated weapons alongside pistols and such. But a lot of emphasis on the alt-Victorian aspect; location sometimes, but often Dickensian sorts of settings, class & beliefs, etc.

too late at night for thinking recs, will get back to you tomorrrrrow (really late actually)

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pipisafoat

OSC said once about how to tell scifi from fantasy, the covers of the books having rivets or trees. struck me as overwhelmingly true and also kind of funny. thinking of exceptions is difficult!

also re sf = future: things like 2001 where it was the future when it was written but now it is no longer the future and it's not true; what if that hadn't been published until now for some reason? still sf? also time-setting ambiguous or alternate-reality sf or whatever.

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Hahahaha oh god fantasy & science fiction covers. I actually have no shame at all about sf/f (the kids who thought I was weird never got close enough to see what I was reading, anyway!) but those covers. I just don't know!

I would go by the author's intention. Like Heinlein is still sf even though he wrote stuff set in 2001, but when he did it it was the 1950's and it was future for him. To me HG Wells is definitely science fiction, because he meant it that way, projecting into the future.

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Recs which I read since I started keeping track:

Kushiel's Legacy! I like the third trilogy best (it was my entrance, and it has much more magic, which is always my weak spot). They begin (the first trilogy) in France, alt-universe France without Christianity as a main influence, but a separate system of gods; Romans don't have as much influence, etc. Moirin (protagonist of the third trilogy) is from Alba (Britain) from a people who live in very secluded areas (almost but not quite hermitage).

I liked Cold Fire/Cold Magic by Kate Elliott which I think I reviewed a few weeks ago. It's set in steampunk Victorian England with magic, mostly coalesced in the hands of cold mages, who wield as much power as princes seem to do; the world is full of ice. It revolves around Cat, a girl of Phoenician descent who is abruptly taken away from her family, and trying to unravel what's going on with magic and such. I particularly liked the characters, and that the relationship overall was focussed on Cat and Bee, her cousin.

Oh! Sort of more historical than fantasy, but Gillian Bradshaw's Hawk of May (series: Down the Long Wind). I am so in love with these books, it's actually embarrassing. They're basically a more historical telling of the Arthurian legends, focussed initially on Gwalchmai (Sir Gawain); in doing so she also uses more Welsh names/places. They do feature some magic, but more of the religious worship (Lugh), so people like Merlin don't exist, nor does stuff like the Grail or Excalibur. This is one of my hands-down favourite retellings of the Arthurian cycle, no joke, although then again I haven't read all that much... I absolutely loved Gwalchmai though.

Speaking of Arthurian, you've read The Dark is Rising by Susan Cooper right? I also really like the Chronicles of Prydain which are a remix/reimagining of Welsh mythos and stories. I used to want to live in Prydain when I was a kid (both of these are usually classified as kid's lit.)

Ahhhh Jonathon Strange and Mr Norrell. This novel is a huge tome and written like...almost like a history text. Full of footnotes and annotations, kind of dry feel (deliberately), as though it were history and history isn't gonna bow to your desire for a good story, it's trying to tell you what happened. It's a fascinating novel set in I think 18th or 19th century England and incorporates a lot of folklorish or medieval tales (passed down) and all the little minutiae that builds up around towns and hamlets inhabited a long time. There's the legend of the Raven King, from the north, who used magic. It's more loosely written than a lot of modern books--reminiscent of Hugo and such, I feel, who didn't really care that he went off track sometimes, to give you a really good feel for everything. Magic has dampened to the point where there are gentlemen societies about magic...purely theoretical magic, of course. Until someone kind of brings it all crashing down.

And I asked this amazing library at the sf/f collection about alt-history sorts of books, and she gave me this list (including Cold Magic, for which I will love her forever). I haven't read any of these though:

Robins, Madeleine
Point of Honour, Petty Treason

Flynt, Eric
1632

Baxtor, Steven
All Men of Genius
Shades of Milk and Honey

Thomas Harlan
Wasteland of Flint

Oh and trawling through my excel spreadsheets reminded me of a sort of sf/f book--yes sf/f, what am I talking about--which I really loved: Steven Hall's Raw Shark Texts. It's so hard to explain but it involves sharks made of ideas (it does talk about memory loss and fugue states though, idk if you want that) and some really interesting textual and formatting designs. It's more modern, but I really liked the story and even the writing; it's a full-length novel or else I'd have tried to record myself reading it. And it has some really interesting concepts about memory, about reality.

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pipisafoat

omg thanks i will have to make a list in my phone (maybe to call 'silver recs') so the next time i am all OMG WHAT TO READ it is right there for my thinking.

also thank you a lot for the warning re raw shark texts. it sounds super-fascinating but i shall have to wait for optimum spoons when reading it, which is not right now.

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I am so guilty of asking for recs and then, once in the library, browsing the shelves aimlessly...your phone idea is actually really great, since I actually carry my phone!

Let me know what you think! Sometimes I don't know where the division between "things people might enjoy" and "things I really enjoy because of X" is ;) (I may or may not be dying for fic in a couple of these.)

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homg yes. I totally need to read the other two books in the trilogy.

Summaries, man. Why do they take so much effort?

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I'm assuming they're a lot of work because we're perfectionists, and we're afraid of writing bad summaries that don't do the books justice.

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Yeah, exactly. Plus once you condense books to a certain size (i.e. summary size) everything sounds ridiculous. Plot of Crime and Punishment: guy commits crime, eventually punishes himself & repents. Plot of Gone with the Wind: silly girl changed by Civil War. Plot of the Life of Pi: kid stranded at sea with tiger. Etc. And none of the summaries can adequately convey just how amazing some of the books are.

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Oh my goodness, you so, so right. Especially with the example of Gone with the Wind--that left me reeling a bit.

ETA: On a funny note, the best and the worst one-sentence summary I've ever read has got to be for Lord of the Rings: a bunch of guys fighting over jewelry. LOL!

Edited Date: Sep. 22nd, 2013 07:00 pm (UTC)

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Yes! A ring that was imbued with POWER. That turns wearers invisible. It just sounds so silly out of context!

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Indeed. When I first saw LotR, the ring annoyed me, because I didn't understand the brilliant symbolism and storytelling.

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Hm, what sort of symbolism? I always assumed Tolkien just picked a piece of jewelery offhand, something small and concealable. Never really thought about implications!

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Well, I was thinking more along the lines of how the lust for the ring was symbolic of the lust of power in general. Wasn't really thinking about any symbolism connected with the jewelry itself. Though, now, I'm starting to think maybe there was a purpose in the choice of a ring, since often kings would seal decrees with wax impressions of their rings, and those decrees wouldn't be lawful until they bore the king's seal. Also, to be given an iconic ring by a king was to be given permission to do anything, all in the king's name.

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