Athyra, Orca, Dragon
Sep. 29th, 2021 04:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
silverflight8CAN'T STOP WON'T STOP
I think since I read Phoenix I have read the next seven books in a row, and it's only taking this long because I couldn't get hold of these four for a bit (thanks againhamsterwoman for getting me copies!!) I'm trying to pace myself but it's hard.
*It was both interesting and disappointing to get the story through Savn. I think Savn is an interesting narrator, especially since most of the audience that we've been interacting with so far looks down on the Teckla, with the exception of Kelly's group. His perspective is also severely limited because of his life circumstances and how much he's been exposed to - he's never left his home, and despite his 90 years of age (probably triple or quadruple Vlad's) has almost certainly seen far less than Vlad has. I do really like Vlad's narration though - it's one of the big draws of the series - and this book only shows an outside view of him.
*I also liked Rocza's perspective. Loiosh's is super clear in the books. He's clearly sentient and at least as sharp as a human in communication, even from the very start. The first thing Vlad hears from Loiosh when Loiosh had just hatched was the word "mama", not a feeling but a clear word, and Loiosh is super sarcastic and perceptive. Rocza, on the other hand, has no such connection to Vlad, and obviously finds Vlad's motivations baffling. It's interesting because the connection was clear enough that Rocza was able to understand Vlad's desperate cry for help in his fight with Mellar, but I think Vlad was using witchcraft at that point.
*Both of these two perspectives made it a very different book from the previous ones. A lot of the fun of the books is the contrast between what the text says and what it means, and this is another facet of it. I do miss Vlad's perspective (how surprising!) and in some cases Savn's narration is even more obscure than Vlad's. Vlad will often omit facts or elide them, but in Savn's case, Savn's sometimes being deceived wholesale, like the time Vlad takes him to the caves to show him sorcery, but Vlad just wanted to take a look around the cave and see if it led to Loraan, so he just puts Savn to sleep.
*Fird, the fruit seller, has an accent/speech from a different part of the country, and I enjoyed how it was rendered by Savn. Instead of phonetic changes, it's scrambled word-order and verb agreements, which is at least novel. Sometimes a bit hard to understand, but that's ok, he's not a huge character.
*Savn and his village's thoughts on the jhereg are pretty interesting. I'm so used to Loiosh because of course we get to hear him talk to Vlad all the time, but they definitely are kind of scary. Everyone seems to be aware that they are poisonous - the way we know that some snakes are, I guess.
*Savn's also pretty brave, all things considered. Vlad got a long time to 'toughen up', so to speak - getting beat up for a long time, getting angry, getting trained by his grandfather, all that, plus his father and his grandfather both think that they don't deserve this kind of treatment - his grandfather because he accepts his identity as a human and an Easterner, his father because he tries to assimilate into Dragaera and buys the citizenship for himself and his son. Savn doesn't have any of that, but he's able to do surgery on his own master and Vlad too, walk up to Loraan's castle, eventually turn on Loraan...that's a lot.
*OK I have to scream about the KIERA IS SETHRA reveal first. I already went and yelled about it withsholio on discord but I have to do it again because OH MY GOD!!! I knew there was something coming because of some comments I read, but I had no idea. My mind is blown. I'm still trying to cope.
*I started thinking back to some of the information we've gotten about Kiera in the preceding books (ebooks being searchable is awesome). There's of course the time Kiera gave Vlad the blood of a goddess incident (I assume this is Verra's blood). There's that time when Vlad was fighting the turf war with Laris, and Morrolan quietly gave him a huge amount of cash to support him secretly, and Kiera also shows up with a gem she admitted she got from Sethra. Got from Sethra, more like Sethra walked into her own treasury, took out a gem, turned herself into Kiera, and then teleported to Adrilankha to give it to Vlad, oh my god. And there's also that time where Vlad is explaining the kinds of assassinations that exist (from the death as a warning, death that's not revivifiable, and the Morganti soul-killing deaths). He says that he was killed as a warning once, and Kiera found his body in the gutter in time and had Sethra revive him. AHHH
*I also kind of started shipping Kiera/Vlad but now with the reveal I don't know how to feel yet. I still think of them as two separate people.
*This explains why Kiera doesn't do psionic contact I suppose.
*I can't believe Kiera's gotten away with this. I mean, it's Sethra and everyone's scared of her abilities for good reason, so I guess it shouldn't be surprising she can cover her tracks well, plus she as Kiera usually doesn't work with anyone. But she's a Dragon. Working for the Jhereg part time. I think both councils would blow their tops if they found out.
*VLAD HAS A SON AND DOESN'T KNOW. CAWTI CAN'T GET IN CONTACT WITH HIM. Ahhhhh!!
*Loiosh got hurt :( Poor Loiosh, and poor Vlad, who didn't know what to do about it, except to bandage him and try to run back to shelter.
*I also really really enjoyed reading Kiera's perspective. She is really good at what she does and she observes things that Vlad doesn't - and/or says them, maybe. I loved hearing her break down how she does her stealing, and how she says to herself to slow down, you're the best thief in the Empire because you're careful. Her metaphorical description of the sorcery (making a spider to swallow the little watcher-sorcery hanging out in the corner) was also super interesting.
*Kiera also has no compunctions about teleporting. Vlad hates them because he's not very good with sorcery and they make him sick and at this stage he's wearing the Phoenix stones to prevent the Jhereg from finding him. But she's obviously an insane sorcerer, and a Dragaeran, so she teleports back and forth from Northport to Adrilankha to that cottage with no hesitation, crossing ground at a speed that is sort of ridiculous to think about.
*Most modern governments have a national bank as the lender of last resort, and also monetary and fiscal policy (and okay, fiat money so printing is possible), but I guess the Empire is more mercantile. I did laugh at this though:
“Maybe. But maybe not. I don’t know how banks operate, but they’re bound to generate immense amounts of paperwork, and—”
Yes, you have no idea. LOL
*I can't imagine how much paperwork Vlad had to read and sort through. My eyes hurt just thinking about it.
*Vlad has a conversation with Kiera about how during the Dragon-Jhereg war (the first one) the Jhereg went for the leaders and slaughtered them ASAP, and how Sethra Lavode declared herself the leader then sat at Dzur Mountain and took out any assassin who tried to get at her. Everything about this conversation is hilarious. Vlad asks if Kiera has ever been to Dzur Mountain and Kiera just shrugs. He's explaining to Kiera Sethra's strategies....
*I love that in the interludes, Cawti makes Kiera tell her if Loiosh is okay before going on. Aw. That's also detail I'd need immediately, chronological order be damned.
*I enjoyed Hwdf Rjaanci. She's grossed out by Vlad (the Dragaerans in general seem to find Easterners unpleasantly hairy, Kiera's surprised by his chest when she goes to look at the bandaging) but also doesn't want to hurt Vlad's feelings. Which, I mean, he is helping make sure she's not evicted...but he also came by and dumped a patient on her for that service, so I guess it's a net zero there.
Hooray it's back to the time when Vlad was in the Organization but before the whole Mellar incident!
*I had a sudden thought - grey and black are the Jhereg colours, and black is the colour of sorcery (see Castle Black and Vlad's many feelings on how Morrolan has named his castle, lol). But this book also mentions that grey is the colour of death/mourning. I can't help but think the Jhereg colours are a reference to the respective businesses - of the Right Hand and Left Hand. OK, I suppose that the Right Hand does more than just assassinations but it's a big part of the business!
*We found out how Morrolan hired Vlad to be his security consultant. I am losing it at the extremely formal note that Morrolan sent Vlad, as well as the postscript which is almost certainly not sarcastic, but without knowing Morrolan would almost certainly be read that way: "P.S.: You expressed a preference for a formal invitation over our last method of asking for your help; I hope this meets with your approval — M." It's so excellent because Vlad himself speaks in a very modern slangy way and Morrolan's note might keep decent company with a Victorian's note.
*Oh man watching Vlad go to war fully intending to, as he says, bug out before any action starts...and then go through and fight like five engagements is...Vlad, you lie to yourself so much. He does this so many times Loiosh gives up on mocking him about it! He says he hates Dragons and Dragaerans and then refuses to run for his life. At least the Dragons in his cohort genuinely have a taste for military life and are getting things out of it all; Vlad is so unsuited for all this. He's sticking it out because he doesn't want to appear afraid in front of them...but also because he has already developed fellow-feeling for his messmates and doesn't want to ditch them.
*I only realized in this novel that Castle Black isn't floating in the air on a chunk of rock like a floating island. I think his courtyard is made of some kind of hardened air, so you don't fall through, but it's also clear? This explains why (as a queasy Vlad attempts to get himself oriented again) he keeps commenting on the ground far below him. That's terrifying. I wonder if Morrolan has a garden or anything at the back?
*I couldn't remember a single idea of mine that [Kragar] hadn't thrown cold water on, nor a single one that he hadn't backed me on to the hilt—literally, in some cases.
Awwww.
*Our introduction to Daymar! He's such a space cadet. I also loved the scene where after Vlad refused to tell Daymar what his reasons were, refused to let Daymar probe his mind to figure out why Vlad found the Morganti weapons so affecting, so Daymar just up and mind-probed Kragar, and Vlad lost it on Daymar. I also love that Daymar almost followed Vlad and Kragar back to the office and Kragar apparently had to tell Daymar to not do it.
*Loiosh is such a helpful companion to Vlad. Like he knows instantly what's going on, sorcerously, but also functions as eyes (and ears) in the sky, Vlad never has to worry he's being secretly mind-probed or influenced. It makes me wonder how Ambrus interacts with Noish-pa. Ambrus wouldn't have the same "eye in the sky" ability that Loiosh can employ so well, but Noish-pa also doesn't assassinate people for a living, so probably Ambrus works great for him.
*I also love that this occurs:
"Boss! Boss! You can stand up now!"
It's always embarrassing to panic in front of Loiosh.
Vlad has been sealed up in wine barrels for hours on end and unloaded off boats in completely undignified ways, spent nights sneaking into cellars and hiding all night in the storage area, spent hours cramped in doorways, alleyways, etc, all in the regular service of his profession. How does he have embarrassment left.
*I also loved the callback at the end when he calls Loiosh Lieutenant of the First Jhereg Assassins company and by this point Loiosh (who was teasing Vlad about getting that rank way at the beginning of the assignment) is totally unimpressed and just goes, whatever.
*"Never mind," I said. "If something is missing and we don't know how, Kiera took it."
"Then what?" put in Kragar.
"That's easy. We give up and report failure, which I should have done already."
LOL
*The visit to the Serioli was also really interesting. They regard the Great Weapons as sentient beings also and I suppose Spellbreaker is - incomplete? Morrolan got critiqued on his translation from Serioli to Dragaeran. It's interesting the Serioli don't see time the way we (or the Dragaerans) do.
*Vlad at one point eats six or seven biscuits a meal, which he says just goes to show how low the human animal can be reduced, but after his first attempted drink of the army's coffee, he never tries it again. He chokes down his biscuits with water for the rest of that storyline. lol
*Kragar says he did research into Vlad before agreeing to work for him. I'm now wondering how much he found out. He knows where Vlad's family is from...I wonder if he's spied on Noish-pa?? Does he know more about Vlad's father than Vlad? (Possibly)
I think since I read Phoenix I have read the next seven books in a row, and it's only taking this long because I couldn't get hold of these four for a bit (thanks again
hamsterwoman for getting me copies!!) I'm trying to pace myself but it's hard. *It was both interesting and disappointing to get the story through Savn. I think Savn is an interesting narrator, especially since most of the audience that we've been interacting with so far looks down on the Teckla, with the exception of Kelly's group. His perspective is also severely limited because of his life circumstances and how much he's been exposed to - he's never left his home, and despite his 90 years of age (probably triple or quadruple Vlad's) has almost certainly seen far less than Vlad has. I do really like Vlad's narration though - it's one of the big draws of the series - and this book only shows an outside view of him.
*I also liked Rocza's perspective. Loiosh's is super clear in the books. He's clearly sentient and at least as sharp as a human in communication, even from the very start. The first thing Vlad hears from Loiosh when Loiosh had just hatched was the word "mama", not a feeling but a clear word, and Loiosh is super sarcastic and perceptive. Rocza, on the other hand, has no such connection to Vlad, and obviously finds Vlad's motivations baffling. It's interesting because the connection was clear enough that Rocza was able to understand Vlad's desperate cry for help in his fight with Mellar, but I think Vlad was using witchcraft at that point.
*Both of these two perspectives made it a very different book from the previous ones. A lot of the fun of the books is the contrast between what the text says and what it means, and this is another facet of it. I do miss Vlad's perspective (how surprising!) and in some cases Savn's narration is even more obscure than Vlad's. Vlad will often omit facts or elide them, but in Savn's case, Savn's sometimes being deceived wholesale, like the time Vlad takes him to the caves to show him sorcery, but Vlad just wanted to take a look around the cave and see if it led to Loraan, so he just puts Savn to sleep.
*Fird, the fruit seller, has an accent/speech from a different part of the country, and I enjoyed how it was rendered by Savn. Instead of phonetic changes, it's scrambled word-order and verb agreements, which is at least novel. Sometimes a bit hard to understand, but that's ok, he's not a huge character.
*Savn and his village's thoughts on the jhereg are pretty interesting. I'm so used to Loiosh because of course we get to hear him talk to Vlad all the time, but they definitely are kind of scary. Everyone seems to be aware that they are poisonous - the way we know that some snakes are, I guess.
*Savn's also pretty brave, all things considered. Vlad got a long time to 'toughen up', so to speak - getting beat up for a long time, getting angry, getting trained by his grandfather, all that, plus his father and his grandfather both think that they don't deserve this kind of treatment - his grandfather because he accepts his identity as a human and an Easterner, his father because he tries to assimilate into Dragaera and buys the citizenship for himself and his son. Savn doesn't have any of that, but he's able to do surgery on his own master and Vlad too, walk up to Loraan's castle, eventually turn on Loraan...that's a lot.
*OK I have to scream about the KIERA IS SETHRA reveal first. I already went and yelled about it with
sholio on discord but I have to do it again because OH MY GOD!!! I knew there was something coming because of some comments I read, but I had no idea. My mind is blown. I'm still trying to cope. *I started thinking back to some of the information we've gotten about Kiera in the preceding books (ebooks being searchable is awesome). There's of course the time Kiera gave Vlad the blood of a goddess incident (I assume this is Verra's blood). There's that time when Vlad was fighting the turf war with Laris, and Morrolan quietly gave him a huge amount of cash to support him secretly, and Kiera also shows up with a gem she admitted she got from Sethra. Got from Sethra, more like Sethra walked into her own treasury, took out a gem, turned herself into Kiera, and then teleported to Adrilankha to give it to Vlad, oh my god. And there's also that time where Vlad is explaining the kinds of assassinations that exist (from the death as a warning, death that's not revivifiable, and the Morganti soul-killing deaths). He says that he was killed as a warning once, and Kiera found his body in the gutter in time and had Sethra revive him. AHHH
*I also kind of started shipping Kiera/Vlad but now with the reveal I don't know how to feel yet. I still think of them as two separate people.
*This explains why Kiera doesn't do psionic contact I suppose.
*I can't believe Kiera's gotten away with this. I mean, it's Sethra and everyone's scared of her abilities for good reason, so I guess it shouldn't be surprising she can cover her tracks well, plus she as Kiera usually doesn't work with anyone. But she's a Dragon. Working for the Jhereg part time. I think both councils would blow their tops if they found out.
*VLAD HAS A SON AND DOESN'T KNOW. CAWTI CAN'T GET IN CONTACT WITH HIM. Ahhhhh!!
*Loiosh got hurt :( Poor Loiosh, and poor Vlad, who didn't know what to do about it, except to bandage him and try to run back to shelter.
*I also really really enjoyed reading Kiera's perspective. She is really good at what she does and she observes things that Vlad doesn't - and/or says them, maybe. I loved hearing her break down how she does her stealing, and how she says to herself to slow down, you're the best thief in the Empire because you're careful. Her metaphorical description of the sorcery (making a spider to swallow the little watcher-sorcery hanging out in the corner) was also super interesting.
*Kiera also has no compunctions about teleporting. Vlad hates them because he's not very good with sorcery and they make him sick and at this stage he's wearing the Phoenix stones to prevent the Jhereg from finding him. But she's obviously an insane sorcerer, and a Dragaeran, so she teleports back and forth from Northport to Adrilankha to that cottage with no hesitation, crossing ground at a speed that is sort of ridiculous to think about.
*Most modern governments have a national bank as the lender of last resort, and also monetary and fiscal policy (and okay, fiat money so printing is possible), but I guess the Empire is more mercantile. I did laugh at this though:
“Maybe. But maybe not. I don’t know how banks operate, but they’re bound to generate immense amounts of paperwork, and—”
Yes, you have no idea. LOL
*I can't imagine how much paperwork Vlad had to read and sort through. My eyes hurt just thinking about it.
*Vlad has a conversation with Kiera about how during the Dragon-Jhereg war (the first one) the Jhereg went for the leaders and slaughtered them ASAP, and how Sethra Lavode declared herself the leader then sat at Dzur Mountain and took out any assassin who tried to get at her. Everything about this conversation is hilarious. Vlad asks if Kiera has ever been to Dzur Mountain and Kiera just shrugs. He's explaining to Kiera Sethra's strategies....
*I love that in the interludes, Cawti makes Kiera tell her if Loiosh is okay before going on. Aw. That's also detail I'd need immediately, chronological order be damned.
*I enjoyed Hwdf Rjaanci. She's grossed out by Vlad (the Dragaerans in general seem to find Easterners unpleasantly hairy, Kiera's surprised by his chest when she goes to look at the bandaging) but also doesn't want to hurt Vlad's feelings. Which, I mean, he is helping make sure she's not evicted...but he also came by and dumped a patient on her for that service, so I guess it's a net zero there.
Hooray it's back to the time when Vlad was in the Organization but before the whole Mellar incident!
*I had a sudden thought - grey and black are the Jhereg colours, and black is the colour of sorcery (see Castle Black and Vlad's many feelings on how Morrolan has named his castle, lol). But this book also mentions that grey is the colour of death/mourning. I can't help but think the Jhereg colours are a reference to the respective businesses - of the Right Hand and Left Hand. OK, I suppose that the Right Hand does more than just assassinations but it's a big part of the business!
*We found out how Morrolan hired Vlad to be his security consultant. I am losing it at the extremely formal note that Morrolan sent Vlad, as well as the postscript which is almost certainly not sarcastic, but without knowing Morrolan would almost certainly be read that way: "P.S.: You expressed a preference for a formal invitation over our last method of asking for your help; I hope this meets with your approval — M." It's so excellent because Vlad himself speaks in a very modern slangy way and Morrolan's note might keep decent company with a Victorian's note.
*Oh man watching Vlad go to war fully intending to, as he says, bug out before any action starts...and then go through and fight like five engagements is...Vlad, you lie to yourself so much. He does this so many times Loiosh gives up on mocking him about it! He says he hates Dragons and Dragaerans and then refuses to run for his life. At least the Dragons in his cohort genuinely have a taste for military life and are getting things out of it all; Vlad is so unsuited for all this. He's sticking it out because he doesn't want to appear afraid in front of them...but also because he has already developed fellow-feeling for his messmates and doesn't want to ditch them.
*I only realized in this novel that Castle Black isn't floating in the air on a chunk of rock like a floating island. I think his courtyard is made of some kind of hardened air, so you don't fall through, but it's also clear? This explains why (as a queasy Vlad attempts to get himself oriented again) he keeps commenting on the ground far below him. That's terrifying. I wonder if Morrolan has a garden or anything at the back?
*I couldn't remember a single idea of mine that [Kragar] hadn't thrown cold water on, nor a single one that he hadn't backed me on to the hilt—literally, in some cases.
Awwww.
*Our introduction to Daymar! He's such a space cadet. I also loved the scene where after Vlad refused to tell Daymar what his reasons were, refused to let Daymar probe his mind to figure out why Vlad found the Morganti weapons so affecting, so Daymar just up and mind-probed Kragar, and Vlad lost it on Daymar. I also love that Daymar almost followed Vlad and Kragar back to the office and Kragar apparently had to tell Daymar to not do it.
*Loiosh is such a helpful companion to Vlad. Like he knows instantly what's going on, sorcerously, but also functions as eyes (and ears) in the sky, Vlad never has to worry he's being secretly mind-probed or influenced. It makes me wonder how Ambrus interacts with Noish-pa. Ambrus wouldn't have the same "eye in the sky" ability that Loiosh can employ so well, but Noish-pa also doesn't assassinate people for a living, so probably Ambrus works great for him.
*I also love that this occurs:
"Boss! Boss! You can stand up now!"
It's always embarrassing to panic in front of Loiosh.
Vlad has been sealed up in wine barrels for hours on end and unloaded off boats in completely undignified ways, spent nights sneaking into cellars and hiding all night in the storage area, spent hours cramped in doorways, alleyways, etc, all in the regular service of his profession. How does he have embarrassment left.
*I also loved the callback at the end when he calls Loiosh Lieutenant of the First Jhereg Assassins company and by this point Loiosh (who was teasing Vlad about getting that rank way at the beginning of the assignment) is totally unimpressed and just goes, whatever.
*"Never mind," I said. "If something is missing and we don't know how, Kiera took it."
"Then what?" put in Kragar.
"That's easy. We give up and report failure, which I should have done already."
LOL
*The visit to the Serioli was also really interesting. They regard the Great Weapons as sentient beings also and I suppose Spellbreaker is - incomplete? Morrolan got critiqued on his translation from Serioli to Dragaeran. It's interesting the Serioli don't see time the way we (or the Dragaerans) do.
*Vlad at one point eats six or seven biscuits a meal, which he says just goes to show how low the human animal can be reduced, but after his first attempted drink of the army's coffee, he never tries it again. He chokes down his biscuits with water for the rest of that storyline. lol
*Kragar says he did research into Vlad before agreeing to work for him. I'm now wondering how much he found out. He knows where Vlad's family is from...I wonder if he's spied on Noish-pa?? Does he know more about Vlad's father than Vlad? (Possibly)
no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2021 04:14 am (UTC)Kiera also shows up with a gem she admitted she got from Sethra
One of the great joys of rereading these books for me (and I reread these a lot, while normally I am not a re-reader) is coming across all the bits that suddenly take on a completely different form and/or are hilarious once you know the Orca spoiler, like the bits you referenced. My favorites of those is probably when Kiera is reassuring Vlad about going to Castle Black in Taltos: "I'll tell you what, Vlad. You go ahead and follow him there. If Morrolan kills you, he won't live out the month." -- like, Vlad is all touched, as he should be, but in retrospect of course the whole thing was masterminded by Sethra. But my actual favorite bit comes from Dragon, which recall I first read before I read Orca, so it was only on reread that I discovered how hilarious the line: "'For one thing,' said Sethra, 'we don't know any thieves.'" was. :DDD
OK, back to addressing this in chronological order. Like Loiosh being OK, I just had to start there, you understand :D
I do think having Athyra be completely devoid of Vlad's POV is a bold choice, but I definitely like it less than the Vlad-narrated books for it -- it's just a lot less fun. I do appreciate the outside look at Vlad, though, and the jheregs' POV, and also how brave Savn is. Like, the Dragaerans have this cultural stereotype that Teckla are cowardly, and I do feel like Vlad has bought into it, but we can see the reality is quite different with Savn (and with the other Teckla we meet, actually).
I do really enjoy getting a Dragaeran POV of Vlad in Orca. Savn is too inexperienced to really have much of a comparison point, but Kiera's, and the old woman's. Like, I really like the "Easterners are hairy and gross!" detail, where it's not a value judgement, because she doesn't want to hurt Vlad's feelings, it just highlights how different they are.
I don’t know how banks operate, but they’re bound to generate immense amounts of paperwork, and—”
Yes, you have no idea. LOL
Hehe, I'm enjoying your professional opinion on the banking stuff in Orca. Kind of a neat thing for me, when I finally did read Orca, it was during the Great Recession, and it was actually kind of creepy to see just how prescient this book had been. I mean, it's not magic, it's economics, I get that, but still.
I can't help but think the Jhereg colours are a reference to the respective businesses - of the Right Hand and Left Hand
Oooh, I really like this thought! It seems like the kind of thing that could easily work that way in Dragaera.
I am losing it at the extremely formal note that Morrolan sent Vlad, as well as the postscript which is almost certainly not sarcastic, but without knowing Morrolan would almost certainly be read that way
I love all the slightly rocky overtures of friendship between those two in Dragon, and yeah, I love the note because it's probably sincere but seems like it's sarcastic but also I could see it being tongue-in-cheek in a Morrolan-poking-fun-at-both-himself-and-Vlad way, which he does sometimes, although Vlad certainly doesn't know himself well enough at this point to know that.
That's terrifying. I wonder if Morrolan has a garden or anything at the back?
Yeah, I really wonder at the logistics of Castle Black, and also, WTF, like maybe pave that shit, man. But of course he won't, because he's showing off :P (Or, I dunno, maybe something different is going on with the castle and I just don't get a good sense of the visual, because nothing is every very fully described. Except for food.)
Ambrus wouldn't have the same "eye in the sky" ability that Loiosh can employ so well, but Noish-pa also doesn't assassinate people for a living, so probably Ambrus works great for him.
Heh, yes -- Loiosh is a very handy familiar for Vlad's, uh, active lifestyle. But for most witches, a cat is probably just fine XD
no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2021 07:55 pm (UTC)Yes!! I really love how we start out with this extremely flat view of Dragaerans, driven by House stereotypes, because that's how Vlad sees them (and I mean, he's not 100% wrong in many cases) - but the more the books deal with them, the more complexity and nuance starts to show up, especially with individual members of the Houses. I mean, Kragar is technically a Dragon, after all!
no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 12:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 01:49 am (UTC)That's what I remember being my assumption - that basically you don't just STOP being a Dragon and go over to the House that is notorious for being everything the Dragons aren't, so he is considered a Shame Upon His House. But it's possible that there's more to it and I just don't remember it - I read all the books in a big marathon read a few years ago, so I've forgotten a lot of the details!
no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 03:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 03:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 04:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 12:52 am (UTC)"I'll tell you what, Vlad. You go ahead and follow him there. If Morrolan kills you, he won't live out the month." -- like, Vlad is all touched, as he should be, but in retrospect of course the whole thing was masterminded by Sethra. But my actual favorite bit comes from Dragon, which recall I first read before I read Orca, so it was only on reread that I discovered how hilarious the line: "'For one thing,' said Sethra, 'we don't know any thieves.'" was. :DDD
Oh my god oh my god.
Morrolan almost killed him, too, in that first meeting that Sethra orchestrated! While they were going up the stairs in Dzur Mountain. I think Vlad mouthed off and then they both stood on the stairs and Vlad thought very seriously about if he could kill Morrolan fast enough if Morrolan drew steel. Morrolan was wearing Blackwand at the time, too.
It's kind of wild that the Jhereg reserve the Morganti killings for the ultimate punishment of tattling to the empire, but Morrolan literally walks around half the time with it, and lays about with it in battle. I guess it's like the way the Dragon leadership casually declares war and enjoys going to war, compared to the still-terrifying-but-less-overall-mass-destruction the Jhereg create by running the business.
Totally agree about the Teckla. You can really see how hard Savn is fighting against his instincts and upbringing by even going to confront Loraan (which anyone should be afraid to confront anyway). Savn killed two men that night, too - the guard and Loraan. Whew.
but also I could see it being tongue-in-cheek in a Morrolan-poking-fun-at-both-himself-and-Vlad way, which he does sometimes, although Vlad certainly doesn't know himself well enough at this point to know that.
Ooh, I could see this too. And yeah Vlad really doesn't have a good sense of Morrolan still! I love that Morrolan teleported Vlad to Vlad's office and wanted to look around, and his first thought was "wow, this looks like a lawyer's office". LOL. (With a custom-built wheel-y office chair, even! :D)
Yeah, I really wonder at the logistics of Castle Black, and also, WTF, like maybe pave that shit, man. But of course he won't, because he's showing off :P (Or, I dunno, maybe something different is going on with the castle and I just don't get a good sense of the visual, because nothing is every very fully described. Except for food.)
I know, Morrolan, what are you doing? Probably intimidating all your guests, okay, fine. Plus Vlad says Teldra is framed by the doorway because she's the only person illuminated in it. Morrolan has got a sense of the dramatic. Maybe it's got a beautiful garden in the back. What's the point of a castle if you don't have an enviable gorgeous garden somewhere???
The food!! I appreciate that Vlad is light on the visual detail but cares intensely about the food. I loved the raptures he went on while in the army about the restaurants in Adrilankha and the food he'd had there, lol.
no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 04:25 am (UTC)I really, really love that scene on the stairs, and I started loving it even more after reading a tweet? post? video comment? of Brust's where he talked about how he was writing the scene of the two of them in Dzur Mountain, and Vlad mouthed off one time too many, and Brust was like, "Welp, Morrolan is going to kill him -- now what do I do?" But then, as Brust charmingly put it, "they worked it out", so it was OK XD
but Morrolan literally walks around half the time with it, and lays about with it in battle.
Morrolan, and presumably Aliera with Pathfinder, too. But it does seem like Blackwand is the 'scarier' of the two Great Weapons.
But, yeah, I think it's a cool illustration of how above the law the Great Weapons wielders feel themselves to be when not only is Morganti the ultimate punishment via assassination, but at some point Vlad talks about the penalties from the Empire from using (or even just owning? I forget) Morganti weapons, and Morrolan collects the damn things...
I love that Morrolan teleported Vlad to Vlad's office and wanted to look around, and his first thought was "wow, this looks like a lawyer's office". LOL. (With a custom-built wheel-y office chair, even! :D)
Hehe, Vlad and his creature comforts. Respect! :D
The thing I find especially delightful about Morrolan visiting Vlad's office is that in Taltos, one of the reasons Sethra gives Vlad for why they had to jerk him around with the button man thing is, "I might have had some trouble convincing [Morrolan] to walk into a Jhereg's place of business."
Sethra: Morrolan is just not going to go into a Jhereg establishment. We're going to need to employ mind control and murder as elaborate bait to work around that problem.
*like two weeks later*
Morrolan: Hey, Vlad, can I see your office? :DD?
I mean, obviously, at that point it's not a random Jhereg's place of business, it's where his New Friend Vlad spends his time, but I love the degree of distinction that makes.
Probably intimidating all your guests, okay, fine. Plus Vlad says Teldra is framed by the doorway because she's the only person illuminated in it. Morrolan has got a sense of the dramatic.
Totally! The Paarfi books offer some nice details on that score (I mean, both the origin of the floating castle and evidence for Morrolan's sense of the dramatic), but also you can just tell from the Vlad books, too.
. I loved the raptures he went on while in the army about the restaurants in Adrilankha and the food he'd had there, lol.
Just wait till you get to Dzur! ;D
no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 06:10 am (UTC)*like two weeks later*
Morrolan: Hey, Vlad, can I see your office? :DD?
Actual LOLing, and also, inspired by this discussion, I reread some of the Vlad-and-Morrolan parts of Dragon tonight and they are still completely delightful.
... also, Vlad's utter OBLIVIOUSNESS to why nearly dying - worse than dying, actually, given what a big deal dying isn't most of the time for them - in the process of saving someone's life might make them feel differently about you! Vlad, you absolute walnut (affectionate). <333
no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 07:39 pm (UTC)The other delightful thing about that scene to me is, that as soon as Morrolan is inside his office, Vlad goes, "So, you need more time to pay me back. Maybe we can work something out." Which, I wonder if that's just Vlad messing around trying to get a rise out of Morrolan (he certainly does that elsewhere in this book and Taltos), or if it's some kind of payback for Morrolan being all frosty with Kragar immediately preceding, or what. I am kind of shocked that Morrolan doesn't rise to the bait -- he's learning the proper times to ignore Vlad, I'm so proud! -- but I really, really want to know what he's thinking. (And at least Vlad has the good sense not to act on Loiosh's trolly advice to offer Morrolan a job...)
Vlad, you absolute walnut (affectionate). <333
Hahaha, awww!
worse than dying, actually, given what a big deal dying isn't most of the time for them -
That is a great way of putting Dragaerans' attitude towards death!
And, yeah, I find it really neat that Vlad can be an astute and clever judge of character in some circumstances, but then be all like, "this Dragonlord whom I rescued by risking my own life keeps trying to hang out with me -- what's his angle???" I mean, it's hilarious, but it's also kind of sad, because I get the sense that Vlad is good at parsing, like, transactional relationships, but not so much at understanding friendship. I mean, Kiera is definitely a friend, though even with her he seems surprised when she shows that she cares about him, but he also met her when he was a kid, so it's different.)
no subject
Date: Oct. 1st, 2021 08:29 pm (UTC)Yeah, I agree! He seems very baffled much of the time by people liking him, or being loyal to him, and also oblivious to the depth of his own feeling in return, even when he's demonstrating it with things like his violently protective reaction to Daymar probing Kragar! Like, Vlad. There is a REASON why most people who stick around you for any length of time seem to go through the same trajectory:
First 10 minutes: This is the most annoying person I have ever met in my life.
2 days later: .... and I would die for him.
:D
no subject
Date: Oct. 2nd, 2021 04:31 pm (UTC)2 days later: .... and I would die for him.
100% accurate summary of the Vlad books, tbh XD
no subject
Date: Oct. 4th, 2021 03:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Oct. 4th, 2021 03:23 am (UTC)OK first, I have watched your icon for many many loops and it is amazing. I completely forgot that he would of course be lord of somewhere and yeah I feel Morrolan also kind of forgets he is too...
But, yeah, I think it's a cool illustration of how above the law the Great Weapons wielders feel themselves to be when not only is Morganti the ultimate punishment via assassination, but at some point Vlad talks about the penalties from the Empire from using (or even just owning? I forget) Morganti weapons, and Morrolan collects the damn things...
Definitely - above the law is a good analogy for our world. Every time Vlad gets Kragar to obtain one he expects it'll take some time and he usually gets Kragar to obtain one untraceably (unless he needs it urgently).
The plot-to-bring-Vlad also involved having to find an employee who was gonna betray Vlad, too - since they mention witchcraft can't implant an impulse that doesn't exist in someone, just hurry it along a bit. So they've been trying to work on this scheme for awhile.
I'm gonna read the Paarfi books afterwards! I gather they give more of a sweep of time and we get to see Morrolan "help Zerika stomp her way to power" lol.
no subject
Date: Oct. 5th, 2021 01:15 am (UTC)Heh, I'm glad the icon amuses (I spent an embarrassingly long time figuring out relative pie chart areas that felt right to me XD)
I don't think we ever get to see Morrolan do anything useful about the duchy he's ostnesibly in charge of in the Vlad books, and to be honest, he doesn't do much about it in the Paarfi books as well. I get the distinct sense that the person actually performing those duties is Lady Teldra.
I'm gonna read the Paarfi books afterwards! I gather they give more of a sweep of time and we get to see Morrolan "help Zerika stomp her way to power" lol.
Will definitely be curious to know what you think if/when you do! :) I will say, they are a very different beast from the Vlad books. I know people who love the Vlad books but bounced off Parfi, and at least one person who loved Paarfi but couldn't get into Vlad's "mafia boss" worldview. I do enjoy the Paarfi books, but in a different way, and the actual style of the prose works for me much less well than Vlad's fun, sharp narration does. But the additional complication of unreliable narrators and getting to see that larger sweep of history, as you say, makes them worthwhile for me.
It takes a while to get to the "Zerika stomping her way to power" books. The first book, The Phoenix Guards, is a Three Musketeers-in-Dragaera pastiche, and I don't think it's a great novel, but it does introduce some very fun characters. The sequel, Five Hundred Years After, deals with the roots of Adron's Disaster, and it's legitimately one of my favorite Dragaera books. And then we get into the Zerika timeframe books with Paths of the Dead, Lord of Castle Black, and Sethra Lavode, which split their time between Zerika (wonderful! I got so much more appreciation for her after reading these books, which made Phoenix and her other appearance in the Vlad books more interesting), Morrolan as a young man in the East and first coming to Dragaera (naturally 100% my jam), the protagonists of the earlier books (whom I mostly like, and some of whom do show up in the Vlad books, at least in mentions), and the nominal protagonist of this trilogy, who I'm sorry to say I find very boring. And then there's the latest Paarfi book, Baron of Magister Valley, which is a standalone and I think the best written of the Paarfis probably.
Anyway, so, in books 3-5, we do get to see Morrolan help Zerika with the reforging of the Empire, and it's pretty wonderful -- but also (as you might have come to expect from now) pretty different, from the way things sound in the Vlad books. Of course, characters might not be telling the truth, or Vlad might be misremembering, or Paarfi might be making stuff up to make for a better story or for his own reasons. Such is the joy of reading these books :D
no subject
Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 02:01 am (UTC)You spent the right amount of time on that icon, okay.
Those sound really great. I really probably should read the Three Musketeers sometime, but you know, the TBR pile grows and grows and I cannot keep up...I have heard elsewhere also that reading the Parfi books gives you much more on Zerika and that contributes to Vlad's novels, so that's exciting! I love that the Parfi books and Vlad's don't quite match up on details. Unsurprisingly. I love the gentle unreliable narrator these books have and anyway there's the question of historical accuracy? etc. Ahhh I'm so excited.