silver (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
silverflight8) wrote2013-11-11 11:37 pm
silverflight8) wrote2013-11-11 11:37 pm
continuation to the Thor entry
Link to race-bent Lady Loki: http://ninzz-minigoth.deviantart.com/#/art/Duplicitous-Creature-406620208?hf=1
To a tarot card deck of the MCU characters: http://ninzz-minigoth.deviantart.com/art/MCU-Tarot-Card-Set-Major-Arcana-376464297
In general I really like her art--her traditional art especially is stunning. (See http://ninzz-minigoth.deviantart.com/art/Gift-Tom-Hiddleston-322725607 because wow, the detail.)
--
About female characters, because I am impelled to stick in my oar and cast the two cents into the deep dark ocean that is Thor fandom:
As unhappy as I am with Frigga's death, I don't think she was fridged.
I don't find on-screen Jane/Thor very appealing but I don't think Jane was ever made to be the maiden waiting for Thor and abandoning her science (what on earth).
Fridging first. I see fridging as a cheap way to produce angst or motivation. And it did provide that--but not cheaply. Firstly, we get to see her personality. This is now the second time we see her fight; first in Thor around Odin's bedside, now here. We see her scheme to fool Malekith. She gets several lines that explain her connection to multiple members of family and people around her, e.g. to Loki about being a good king, to Odin about being careful (and the rejoinder that suggests they have been together for a long, long time), to Jane to be obedient. This is a character with motivations of her own. No, I don't think it's a lot of lines--but it's a movie principally focused on Thor, and there's a sizable cast with many supporting characters, of whom Frigga is one.
Secondly, and just as importantly, I think the way she was killed was significant. She went down fighting, and in a way that meant she won. Yes, Pyrrhic victory, but still a victory--and by the way that's an excellent illusion, you can even hear Jane's panicked breathing! She's not killed off-screen, but in a way that contributes to the overall plot. She has an integral part to play in the defense of Asgard against Malekith.
Thirdly her death was treated well. The scene of her funeral was genuinely moving and a gorgeous, beautiful scene. That visual of the boat, the pyre, the boat floating past the edge of the world--beautiful, absolutely beautiful.
Now Jane. I kind of hate on-screen depictions of romantic relationships generally (it makes me uncomfortable) but I didn't see Jane saying she moped around for two years waiting for Thor. Canonically we know she gets sent to a scientific research facility somewhere in Scandinavia during the events of Avengers, so she's evidently doing work during then. And come on, she's on a date. She's having lunch/dinner. People don't usually work during dinner. The way Darcy just pulls up suggests that Darcy's still her intern helping her out (why would she need an intern if she's not doing work?) Her equipment is different and new and pretty fancy looking, actually, suggesting that she's still working. Honestly, I don't understand where the argument comes from. Thor has been away for two years--she's been waiting for two years--but that doesn't mean she just sat there.
I love how curious Jane is. Like she's on Asgard, she's lying on this bed to be diagnosed after some pretty freaky events with glowy lights around her, knowing there's something dangerous inside her...and she asks what they're doing and tries to fit it into her paradigm of science. And gets it right! That's basically the science = magic concept, which they played with a bit in the first movie.
Or when she travels through time and space and her reaction after that hair-raising journey is one of happiness and desire to do it again. I know personally I'd be reaching for a solid piece of ground to sit down on, but she's gone right to wanting to do it again.
I thought she got rather MacGuffined in the middle of the movie as she became the vessel of the aether (and Thor and Loki's relationship came to the fore) but Loki disappears after that and Jane comes into her own with the battle at the end. I like how there's kind of a range--Sif is the warrior, Jane's the scientist, Darcy's the intern, and they all get to play a role in this whole mess.
Is it normal to go to a movie and think, off and on, how beautiful everyone is? It was kind of absurd. God, so many of them are gorgeous.
I think I would quite happily watch a movie full of the two of them bickering. I love Thor's reaction to the backseat driving; he sounds like siblings who've been through a millenia of this sort of back-and-forth. "Good job, you've just decapitated your grandfather", I swear the entire break-out of Asgard was gold, pure gold.
Death scene for Loki: I may or may not have been internally screaming NOOOOO (this also happened during Frigga's scene, because NOOOO why aren't you checking on her, she's not dead you can still SAVE HER).
Speaking of death scenes, is it me or are the powers/defenses of Asgardians rather inconsistent? They seem to be able to take a lot of hits usually (being slammed around physically, breaking pavement and cars and such, and getting up like it's no big deal) but being stabbed does them in. Hm, maybe it's an Midgardian vs specially-designed-for-Asgardians weapons problem. Maybe their weapons are customized to be effective for Asgardians in a way that ordinary force isn't (eg simply being thrown, when it would kill or severely incapacitate a human).
Also, hyperventilated a bit during the parts where he's in prison. Friend leaned over and asked if I was all right, but seriously, merely seeing characters should not inspire this sort of reaction. GOD I love some of them.
By the way, does Loki imply that there's feelings between Sif and Thor, or what? I read their comfort scene as pretty platonic--and when I say platonic I mean that they're obviously close and are drawing comfort from each other (<3) but it's not a romantic/sexual relationship.
Is he doing the whole "dying to the last man!" thing out of grief or has he always been like this? It is a peculiar reversal to the first movie, when he didn't want to make a mess with Jotunheim, but in that case he also did not want to venture out like Thor did, and that doesn't change. It's hard to tell.
He kind of redeemed himself at the end, and then the surprise twist regarding Loki threw it all out the window again. Evidently Loki has figured out how to make illusions that are:
a) corporeal (Thor is hugging something solid)
b) mimick voices properly (Odin)
but c) can't resist gloating afterwards anyway (shows himself to audience)
I did love the raven reference though! That was lovely.
Extremely meh on Ian/Darcy. I liked Ian well enough, but I kind of wish Darcy weren't paired off. It's got the Pair The Spares vibe to it. Also I thought that the Aether and Malekith tend to be outstripped by the interpersonal dynamics. I am 100% more invested in watching Thor and Loki or Jane and Darcy or whoever interact than I am in seeing the long action sequences. Don't get me wrong, I love the action parts--but I find that a lot of battle sequences tend to be really long (to be dramatic, to be important--stuff that's over in a blink doesn't say the same thing) and I already know how it'll probably end. Red Skull was kind of similar; I didn't care about him, I cared about Steve and Bucky and Peggy a lot more.
I did think the humour really helped though. I like that it doesn't take itself too seriously and that there's levity mixed in. After all, you can only keep your audience hanging by their fingernails for so long.
To a tarot card deck of the MCU characters: http://ninzz-minigoth.deviantart.com/art/MCU-Tarot-Card-Set-Major-Arcana-376464297
In general I really like her art--her traditional art especially is stunning. (See http://ninzz-minigoth.deviantart.com/art/Gift-Tom-Hiddleston-322725607 because wow, the detail.)
--
About female characters, because I am impelled to stick in my oar and cast the two cents into the deep dark ocean that is Thor fandom:
As unhappy as I am with Frigga's death, I don't think she was fridged.
I don't find on-screen Jane/Thor very appealing but I don't think Jane was ever made to be the maiden waiting for Thor and abandoning her science (what on earth).
Fridging first. I see fridging as a cheap way to produce angst or motivation. And it did provide that--but not cheaply. Firstly, we get to see her personality. This is now the second time we see her fight; first in Thor around Odin's bedside, now here. We see her scheme to fool Malekith. She gets several lines that explain her connection to multiple members of family and people around her, e.g. to Loki about being a good king, to Odin about being careful (and the rejoinder that suggests they have been together for a long, long time), to Jane to be obedient. This is a character with motivations of her own. No, I don't think it's a lot of lines--but it's a movie principally focused on Thor, and there's a sizable cast with many supporting characters, of whom Frigga is one.
Secondly, and just as importantly, I think the way she was killed was significant. She went down fighting, and in a way that meant she won. Yes, Pyrrhic victory, but still a victory--and by the way that's an excellent illusion, you can even hear Jane's panicked breathing! She's not killed off-screen, but in a way that contributes to the overall plot. She has an integral part to play in the defense of Asgard against Malekith.
Thirdly her death was treated well. The scene of her funeral was genuinely moving and a gorgeous, beautiful scene. That visual of the boat, the pyre, the boat floating past the edge of the world--beautiful, absolutely beautiful.
Now Jane. I kind of hate on-screen depictions of romantic relationships generally (it makes me uncomfortable) but I didn't see Jane saying she moped around for two years waiting for Thor. Canonically we know she gets sent to a scientific research facility somewhere in Scandinavia during the events of Avengers, so she's evidently doing work during then. And come on, she's on a date. She's having lunch/dinner. People don't usually work during dinner. The way Darcy just pulls up suggests that Darcy's still her intern helping her out (why would she need an intern if she's not doing work?) Her equipment is different and new and pretty fancy looking, actually, suggesting that she's still working. Honestly, I don't understand where the argument comes from. Thor has been away for two years--she's been waiting for two years--but that doesn't mean she just sat there.
I love how curious Jane is. Like she's on Asgard, she's lying on this bed to be diagnosed after some pretty freaky events with glowy lights around her, knowing there's something dangerous inside her...and she asks what they're doing and tries to fit it into her paradigm of science. And gets it right! That's basically the science = magic concept, which they played with a bit in the first movie.
Or when she travels through time and space and her reaction after that hair-raising journey is one of happiness and desire to do it again. I know personally I'd be reaching for a solid piece of ground to sit down on, but she's gone right to wanting to do it again.
I thought she got rather MacGuffined in the middle of the movie as she became the vessel of the aether (and Thor and Loki's relationship came to the fore) but Loki disappears after that and Jane comes into her own with the battle at the end. I like how there's kind of a range--Sif is the warrior, Jane's the scientist, Darcy's the intern, and they all get to play a role in this whole mess.
Is it normal to go to a movie and think, off and on, how beautiful everyone is? It was kind of absurd. God, so many of them are gorgeous.
I think I would quite happily watch a movie full of the two of them bickering. I love Thor's reaction to the backseat driving; he sounds like siblings who've been through a millenia of this sort of back-and-forth. "Good job, you've just decapitated your grandfather", I swear the entire break-out of Asgard was gold, pure gold.
Death scene for Loki: I may or may not have been internally screaming NOOOOO (this also happened during Frigga's scene, because NOOOO why aren't you checking on her, she's not dead you can still SAVE HER).
Speaking of death scenes, is it me or are the powers/defenses of Asgardians rather inconsistent? They seem to be able to take a lot of hits usually (being slammed around physically, breaking pavement and cars and such, and getting up like it's no big deal) but being stabbed does them in. Hm, maybe it's an Midgardian vs specially-designed-for-Asgardians weapons problem. Maybe their weapons are customized to be effective for Asgardians in a way that ordinary force isn't (eg simply being thrown, when it would kill or severely incapacitate a human).
Also, hyperventilated a bit during the parts where he's in prison. Friend leaned over and asked if I was all right, but seriously, merely seeing characters should not inspire this sort of reaction. GOD I love some of them.
By the way, does Loki imply that there's feelings between Sif and Thor, or what? I read their comfort scene as pretty platonic--and when I say platonic I mean that they're obviously close and are drawing comfort from each other (<3) but it's not a romantic/sexual relationship.
Is he doing the whole "dying to the last man!" thing out of grief or has he always been like this? It is a peculiar reversal to the first movie, when he didn't want to make a mess with Jotunheim, but in that case he also did not want to venture out like Thor did, and that doesn't change. It's hard to tell.
He kind of redeemed himself at the end, and then the surprise twist regarding Loki threw it all out the window again. Evidently Loki has figured out how to make illusions that are:
a) corporeal (Thor is hugging something solid)
b) mimick voices properly (Odin)
but c) can't resist gloating afterwards anyway (shows himself to audience)
I did love the raven reference though! That was lovely.
Extremely meh on Ian/Darcy. I liked Ian well enough, but I kind of wish Darcy weren't paired off. It's got the Pair The Spares vibe to it. Also I thought that the Aether and Malekith tend to be outstripped by the interpersonal dynamics. I am 100% more invested in watching Thor and Loki or Jane and Darcy or whoever interact than I am in seeing the long action sequences. Don't get me wrong, I love the action parts--but I find that a lot of battle sequences tend to be really long (to be dramatic, to be important--stuff that's over in a blink doesn't say the same thing) and I already know how it'll probably end. Red Skull was kind of similar; I didn't care about him, I cared about Steve and Bucky and Peggy a lot more.
I did think the humour really helped though. I like that it doesn't take itself too seriously and that there's levity mixed in. After all, you can only keep your audience hanging by their fingernails for so long.